Is this acceptable??

[Lunamoon23]

Hello,

Looking for advice, my father is in a residential facility/care home and has been since May of last year. He had a brain annyersum that left him unable to care for himself at home. He can walk but he often fell etc.

I’ll save all the backstory, but he has been going into the local town and spending huge amounts of money. He went in 4 days ago and spent £270 in Tesco. When I questioned him about what he’d spend that money on, given that he has all meals cooked and provided to him within the home, he told me it was stuff for the home. Fruit, biscuits, juice, vegetable's, cheese etc. It shocked me that they’d accept this?

we have a ongoing dilemma regarding mental capacity with my father and are currently in the process of seeking POA but in the meantime, this is the situation.

So my question is, is this allowed???

He has capacity is allowed out alone so it's his choice and his money. They can accept it. He's an adult with capacity-

I work as a volunteer in a charity shop. It's extremely concerning at times when older people come in, sometimes every day and spend considerable amounts of money on stuff they absolutely can't possibly need.
We can't refuse to serve them they seem to have capacity but it doesn't seem right.

I won’t reply individually because quite alot of you have responded. But we’ve had social services do a capacity assessment 10+ times. Honestly, because he can sit and converse quite intelligently with them, they continuously deem him as having capacity. It’s been a battle we’ve been fighting for a loooong time. He was being financially abused by a ‘friend’ before going in the home, we had to have the police involved and everything, social services wouldn’t help. He also got scammed by money launders, they were sending him large amounts of money, and telling him to bank it and making him transfer money.. yet, still… deemed him as having capacity. This is there reasoning: ‘ someone with capacity can knowingly gamble thousands of pounds and it’s a choice, it doesn’t mean they don’t have the capacity to make that decision’. Despite the fact my dad had a brain annurysum, which resulted in brain damage.. and despite us explaining, the man he was before would never ever make these decisions.

I’ve emailed the home this evening. I’ll wait and see what they reply.

We've also raised with the home before about him being out at that sort of time, they’ve told us he has the choice to come and go as he pleases, again, because of capacity..
he did infact have a fall once on a outing into town, and he made it back to the care home and they sent him to hospital because he’d hit his head, they sent him on his own in a taxi. They didn’t even ring us!! My sister happened to be in A&E with a friend and bumped into him there. I rang the care home less than impressed, there answer was, he told us not to call you, so we didn’t.

We also went and took him out for a birthday meal a while back, and his room was loaded full of bags of shopping, sweets, biscuits, crisps etc. On a visit a few months later, ALL gone. I mean there were enough snacks there to last a year!!
So I know it’s something he does, and he has mentioned he sometimes gives fruit etc to the kitchen for the residents. But when I spoke to him earlier and he listed off things he’d brought for the home, it alarmed me. And I said you really shouldn’t be doing that dad, to which he replied, they’ve never told me not to and they willingly accept it.

It was squash, pasta, cheeses, biscuits, freezer stuff, ham, vegetables, fruit…. Etc.

I believe he is going alone, he doesn’t have a filter so is very honest (something that happened post brain injury) so if someone was going with him and forcibly making him buy stuff he’d tell me.

im also surprised that some are acting in disbelief that a care home would accept this stuff. You see endlessly the neglect that can happen in care homes, i wouldn't think them accepting food brought by a resident would be that outlandish despite their policies, weather their using it within the home, or taking it home themselves. x

My dad was in a home. The home absolutely shouldn’t be accepting his “gifts”. Confirm that they are before going completely ballistic but if you’re right then I’d be complaining loudly to management at the highest level - is it owned and run by the manager or is it part of a group? Find the CEO and contact them. Complain to the CQC or whoever the regulator is. Not sure if it’s criminal as not a lawyer but it’s certainly absolutely disgraceful. Are you friendly with any other residents’ families - anyone you can talk to off the record to compare experiences? Not sure what your options are locally but I’d also be looking to move him.

I’m so sorry OP, this is just awful.

I’ve not read all responses or further posts OP - but worth looking in to power of attorney and taking some amount of control over finances. Important he still has freedom over some of this so it would be an idea to have a card with some amount on it that he can freely spend, but the rest is kept safe for him.

Agree the spending currently isn’t appropriate, I would flag to SW personally and push with this but I recognise I would feel more comfortable doing this as it is what my work background is in.

POA is a straight forward process, you can apply online. I would also discuss with the facility he is in and carers if they are going with him. State the case that you want him to have freedom with money but only X amount and that excessive money shouldn’t be being spent on others (if he wants to buy things for others he knows at the home, workers should be redirecting him to share bags of sweets, crisps, etc, choose one or two items and share them out). It’s about finding a balance.

I would make an appointment with a gp to have a formal mental capacity assessment. It is possible to have capacity over most things, but no so whennit comes to finances. Attend the appointment and discuss the issue you have raised here. He needs a financial deputy, or as you mentioned, someone to act as lasting power of attorney over finance.

Have a word with the home and let them know this is what you are pursuing, and make them aware that a repeat of this will lead you to seek legal advice

Oh and many health categories professionals can carry out an assessment. It isn't as black and white as capacity or no capacity. It's hugely common for people to deemed to have capacity over many aspects of life, but not financial, especially with brain injury, LD etc. Keep pushing until someone gets it right. And I'd avoid social workers and go with a gp or psychiatrist personally!

This must be very worrying for you. That’s a huge amount of money to spend and I’m glad you have contacted the care home.

A relative of mine was in a care home for respite and when I went to visit, there was a folder in their room (like how you would find in a hotel) with a list of phone numbers, care home facilities and some rules and regulations. It clearly stated that staff were not allowed to and would not accept any gifts from their residents. It said something along the lines of, we won’t accept them and do not wish to offend our residents so please do not buy anything for us as we will refuse to accept.

I would check to see if there is anything like this at the care home your dad is at. I don’t have much experience with care homes, but I assumed this was standard for all care homes as surely it would seem they are taking advantage of an elderly person by accepting gifts from them, whether they had capacity or not, especially such a large amount.

The mental capacity thing is quite shocking. My father had several large brain tumours; he couldn't get dressed by himself because he was so confused that he'd try putting his long john's on over his head, like a jumper; he couldn't sit down in a chair because he couldn't work out where in space and time the chair was, and yet he was deemed as having mental capacity (and by the time he was assessed, he was already in a nursing home, with weeks left to live, and on all the drugs that make you high). I couldn't believe it.
I wonder if you can find a document online that outlines what it means, legally, to have mental capacity, and see if you can make it fit, knowing what you know. If so, perhaps look into having an assessment done privately?
I'd also be very unhappy with the care home. Ask for a copy of their rules and regs.

OP from the food side of things the home would be subject to inspections from environmental health & be questioned on their food supply. No home should be accepting food from residents in this manner this would be totally unacceptable & they would know this food can’t be accepted.
I would ask the home for clarification.

Are you sure it’s food and drinks from Tesco as he could be buying other items from there at higher value that he doesn’t want you knowing about for example electronics etc… can you see what he really bought?

Do supermarkets still offer cashback? Where you buy something, pay with card but also ask for some cash and they hand you some notes? Could he be doing that?

it is online and clearly highlighted in law:
to have capacity you must be able to understand retain and relay the information back. and I think in this case principle 3 of the MCA unwise decision does not mean lack of capacity.

it seems the home accepting the food is the issue more than your fathers capacity. Has your dad actually given his point of view on why he does it? (Food is terrible? He’s been asked? He’s doing it to be nice?) Your dad could very well have capacity and is continuing to do this because no one from the home has said no.
if the home tell him clearly that unfortunately they cannot accept such ‘gifts’ due to policies and he continues to do so despite reminding of this several times you may have grounds to question his capacity.

But capacity is complex it’s time and decision specific and can fluctuate. care staff shouldn’t be just stating he has capacity and can do whatever, they should be assessing his capacity everytime he goes out.

However deeming someone to lack capacity is a pretty big deal which can lead to consequences and very much taking away your fathers freedoms and rights. So first work with your dad the home and sw to enable dad to have his freedom but sensibly and safely first.
tell the home to stop accepting ‘gifts’ and they need to clearly tell your dad.
Raise your concerns with the S/W
maybe ask for an OT to work with your dad to come up with structured daily plan so he still has his freedom but more structured with things to do that doesn’t involve staying out until 10:30pm and spending huge amounts of money.

if all this fails then there could be reasons to question his capacity.

hope you sort this soon

Hi again OP. My mother was in a care home for many years. However it was a locked door dementia care home so no chance of her going out shopping! It was a brilliant care home and I trusted them completely.

As you father is deemed to have capacity then there is nothing you can do about this (as you have unfortunately already found in the past). He can spend his money as he likes, because he is deemed to be able to make his own choices, however bad those choices may be.

I would speak to the care home but you may not get anywhere for the reasons above. I often took in chocolate and snacks for the carers which were much appreciated and accepted, so if he's giving that type of food to carers/residents there probably isn't a problem with that. Far more of a problem IMO is that he is allowed out on his own, but again, you've tried and hit a brick wall there.

The home my relative in would accept gifts or at least individual staff did. She often asked us to buy gifts with her money to give to someone who had helped her. The trouble was once she started doing it staff who had previously been less nice started cosying up and that’s when we started encouraging her to do less of it.

My relative enjoyed choosing and giving gifts so it was mutually beneficial but there was definitely scope for her being taken advantage of.

I wonder if that’s what’s happened here, he’s strayed off buying a one off treat for the residents and it’s escalated to this. I hope you get to the bottom of it and he hasn’t been taken advantage of.

This is not right. People with Dementia are known to overspend on unnecessary items. As my son's teacher once told me, "if you believe half of what he says and I do same, the truth is somewhere in the middle". I'd get other medical opinions and consider moving him to somewhere better.
My mother has declined mentally over the past few years, badly so over the last 2. She's had blackouts, falls, been overspending, increasingly agrophobic etc. Her GP has been painfully reluctant to help because she showboats for him. He "tested" her last November and told us she was within "normal range" whatever that means. She finally had a Dementia clinic appointment 2 weeks ago, they did the RUDAS assessment, she scored 9 (out of 30); has severe cognitive impairment and is effectively needing end of life care. So in 4 months gone from fine to totally doo-lally 🤷 I help my Dad look after her at the moment but it's hard and she's too far gone for us to get POA now.

No , they should absolutely Not be accepting this. This is not acceptable and there needs to be a plan in place because hes being financially abused . All parties need to call a meeting. Work out a plan to protect this man financially. In the Care sector ' financial abuse' is a recognised concept and has to be delt with quickly.

The Law , as regards Mental Capacity has changed. Instead of a Wholesale diagnosis of ' Capacity' : ' Capacity' is now broken down into varoius aspects of Life. ' Financial Capacity' is one of them. There are systems available within the Law, which, can withdraw a persons right to access their own money, due to their reduced capacity in this area. You need to realise your power in this situation and go and contact Social services, who shoukd immediately fashion a plan of action to resolve this asap.

Report to Adult Social Care to investigate and let the Home know you are doing so. Raise a Safeguarding please.
Request a new Mental capacity assessment. It must be decision specific ie can dad make an informed decision around buying groceries for the Home?
The MCA should not just be around paying for items in a shop. There’s a significant concern that he doesn’t fully understand that the Home provide meals and drinks in return for the weekly fees (whoever pays).
If he lacks capacity around his spending for food for the Home, it doesn’t mean he has lost all capacity. So he may still have capacity to make a decision on someone applying for LPA for him.

Basically you need a Social Worker involved asap to assess the situation.
Until then, can you put a stop / limit on his card? Just to reduce risk of him being taken advantage of?

For those who have commented since my last response. We have been through the GP, hospital professionals and Social Workers (many different ones at that) regarding the capacity over finances. They continuously deem him as having capacity. When he was living at home before being moved the the care home, he would spend recklessly then but again, because he understood money, that was that. It has been a battle we’ve been contending with for a long long time.

also someone mentioned a pre payment card, we went down this route also. Allowing him £70 a week to spend, he would just go into the bank and order a new bank card. We couldn’t control it. @Desmodiciim sorry to hear you had a similar experience. I know in many ways the capacity act is there to protect the individual but I really think they should help families abit more, especially considering we knew the individual before such illness. They make it very black and white when infact it’s very murky.

I’ve emailed the home, and I asked about their rules and regulations. I’m intrigued to see what they respond. I have a feeling it’ll be one of denial, personally. We’ve had a few problems with them over different issues and they seem to peddle a narrative of ‘wasn’t aware’. @Mememe9898yes we know it’s not high ticket items, we visit him often and he has nothing like that within his bedroom at the home. X

This is so complex. I've just googled and found the Headway leaflet on 'Safeguarding after head injury' which is likely relevant. Amd I think I would first contact the Adult Safeguarding team at your dad's council for advice, and I would probably call the police.

According to what your dad tells you, he is being financially abused by the care team. Social workers have assessed that he is able to make decisions and communicate them, he had told you he's buying things for the team that they should NOT be accepting, so fine - act accordingly. Likewise I think they are also neglecting him. Sure he wants to go out, but if a man who is at risk of falls is heading out alone they should have had some kind of process where they consider a pendant alarm, a care worker to accompany him etc. Even if they have decided against these actions or your dad won't agree to them, they should have a record of their discussions about the situation and if they haven't, imo that is neglectful.

If it turns out that he is telling you nonsense, that should be taken into account in considering his capacity (again). Incidentally family members can assess capacity, as can GPs etc.

You need to get POA as soon as possible, if he’s assessed and they find he’s not got 100% capacity then they won’t allow you to get it. Going through the same process at the moment ourselves for a relative

I’ve attached a copy of the email I have sent. Unlikely to get a reply until next week.

I had read something regarding that just last night, and had a discussion with my sibling about it. So it’s helpful you’ve commented that, thank you. We will start to get the process going. It is something he’s agreed to, which in itself is odd, because if we remove his card from him and agree to take in ‘x’ amount of money for him to spend each week, he’ll rebel against that and go into the bank after a couple weeks and order himself a new card. And that’s where we come unstuck. We even went into the bank a few weeks ago to discuss options and they also said the only thing we can do is POA. Otherwise our hands are tied. X

I think that's a good start to finding out what is happening to the money he is spending.