difficult, irrational, judgemental and demanding DM vs me trying sort out my life

[pivonya]

I recently got divorced and got caught up in a difficult new relationship. Then I had health problems, job loss so a lot on my plate atm. My DM has always been manipulative and as I child I was constantly adhereing to her moods and never really able to be myself. I am in therapy finally which really helps me. I am 46 my DM is 86. We live very far away from each other. I moved out at 21 for a reason. When I go to visit which is usually twice a year she bosses me around, is confrontational, conceited about everything and difficult to communicate. Of course we have lovely moments but I am mainly managing difficult situations. Anything I say is wrong but if a stranger told her the same thing it would be the best idea ever. I still at 46 need to mould to her daily moods and basically agree to everything for the peace. However when I speak to her over the phone she is completely incapable to do anything, moans all the time and complaints how everyone has a helpful son in law, grandchildren (dig I am divorced and childless) to help at little things. She has expressed her wish for me to be nearby as to buy a property where she is and be available. I can not do it and do not want to do it. I just retrained and started new career 6 months ago, I am divorced trying to find love and repair my financial situation. To do what she wants me to do I would have to be unemployed (I can not do my job where she is) and I would have to completely change my life which is not something I want to do after traumatic divorce. I know that if I was anywhere near there she would be on my case daily. She is at the stage where she and her problem are the most important. Nothing else matters. When she does not get her way she can have a tantrum. I have witnessed her tantrums and it shocked me. It included her laying on the floor with tight fists hitting the floor in anger because she is being challenged by a question or there is a request made towards her. Her recent trantrum is that she can not cope with a neighbour having 4am shower so she will sell up and move. This is a person who is not computer literate, doesnt have a smart phone but feels confident selling and buying a property (something she has never done) I know this is all attention seeking behaviour and I really do not want to bend backwards because I had a life of this behaviour and I have enough of my own problems. The selling of the property is out of question as she will only lose money, she has no guarantee what neighbours will she have in the new place, she doesnt even know the property market but has an attitude towards me and even suggest things like I should put my savings into something for her if it would not be enough. She expects I drop everything and come over to sort out her life and move. (this means me not working) I know for a fact she would not survive a move , she tells me how this current situation will kill her and is really over dramatic. She has amazing neighbours where she is now yet is able to moan about literally everyone there. Completely irrational. I know it is my mother but she has been difficult all her life yet she doesnt see it. She has a sister with whom she has not spoken for over 25 years, sister tried to reach out, nobody remebers what the amp is about. I have cousins whom I am not allowed (at 46!) to be in touch with because DM will see it as a betrayal ( no idea why, I like my cousins but keeping distance for peace). She could have a network but with her behaviour managed to isolate people over the years (doesnt see it). She has some new friends she made in the last decade but I can sense that is fading as well. She doesnt recognise her circumstances as living on her own elderly and that in life you can either be right all the time or have peace. At any cost she needs to be right therefore she isolates herself. If she was a bit softer and picked her battles people would be more incline to stick around incl me. My question here is how do you manage sutuations like this. Almost asking for a manual with what to say to her to divert the attention onto something else.

I implemented grey rock and it works. I did not go to see my DM for Easter as it is just too far and I have a lot to catch up on around house and my personal life. Just want to relax and be in my solitude. Have it my way. I am also exhausted from my own problems.
She did all the deep sighs that she is going to be alone but to be completely honest she wouldnt have to be on her own. She has friends and cousins but unfortunately she is difficult in managing those relationships as well. When I hear how she describes certain situations and how hang up about minor things she is, I am not surprised others do not want to engage. I suggested that instead of waiting for an invitation why doesnt she invite. Her answer was a question why I do not invite my DP's adult children who do not get on with me. That was just spiteful comment and really unnecessary. There's always needs to be a snippy comment.
For me visiting DM would be about me romanticizing the Easter and then being hit by reality of her criticizing me and my life. It is usually first 4-6h after my arrival that it is nice and then it all goes pear shape.
She had many years of Easter with my DF and me, Easter I will never have as I am no longer married and have not got my own children.
I feel sorry for her but through therapy I began to understand how much I lost in my life and how much my life has been controlled. I can't turn back time.

I implemented grey rock and it works.

That's great news. I hope you have a relaxing weekend.

Grey rock does work.

But you need to stop offering advice and you need to stop making excuses for things - her problems are not yours to solve!

If she says ‘the shower wakes her up’ all you say is that’s a shame! Do offer ear plugs, oh she’s deaf, she wakes up naturally etc - she doesn’t want advice, she wants to moan. Let her.

Stock answers ‘that’s a shame’ ‘oh I didn’t realize’ nothing confrontational - no remedies

Then get on with your day. Don’t even think of anything she said

Go and read your posts, you think you can fix her - you can’t .

Hope you have a great Easter, OP. My Mum has never been easy. We had 18 months of nc and somehow got speaking again, resulting in many years of her stressing me out/feeling pressurised. Anyway, my latest failure resulted in 10 mins of her being adamant I listed to her on the phone and I wasn't allowed to respond. When I was allowed to speak, I was told I was winding her up and she put the phone down. Two blissful months have followed of not having to listen to her 'c..p' on the phone and in person.

Yes grey rock good. Feel for you all. My friend is still bossed around by her mum she 57. If you dont stand up to elders.. its not nice though

Your DM sounds like a nightmare. What joy does she actually bring you?

Things I found helpful

• Posting on the Stately Homes thread on the Relationships board here
• Only answering the phone when I wanted to
• Greyrocking (lots of umms and ahhs and yeahs or silence)
• Playing mindless games on my phone whenever she spoke (in person or on the phone) to distract me and help me with greyrocking
• Going full non-contact

Going non-contact, although initially hard, was the best decision I ever made. My only regret was I wish i had done it sooner. The relief I have felt is wonderful.

I found greyrocking quite exhausting and eventually it all came to a head, and I realised three things-

• She was taking too much emotional energy and this was consequently impacting my own life, decisions and relationships
• Everything was about her - her needs first, mine dead last
• She was never ever going to change or self reflect

When my mother starts an angry rant, or raises a subject I dislike, I turn the sound right down so I can’t really make out the words. Then when there’s a silence I put the volume up again and just mumble something neutral like ‘oh well’ or ‘yeah’ or ‘hmm’ … and move on to another topic

Just to say I'm in a very similar situation to the OP and have found all of your advice incredibly useful, thank you

I am back as I am hopeless and just need a uplift from fellow Mnetters here. The conondrum continues and DM had another flooding this week. All got resolved quickly and I thought she handled it pretty well until today. I phoned her and received a very unpleasant treatment. It started with her tone of voice which I can literally sense from whether it will be a nice or unpleasant conversation. It was the second one and basically she started moaning again that she is left on her own with the problem of the floodings and neighbours, that nobody wants to talk to her, management company is not doing what she wants them to do, nobody listens to her, she has dark thoughts and doesnt want to live and all this on one breath to me where I just had my birthday and got back from holiday. Do not judge me but whilst on holiday I was calling her daily. Yes, Yes I know I am angry with myself you have no idea how angry I am! She literally dumps on my all her drama, makes me feel guilty I live abroad and have my own life and goes on how she has been left on her own with all this to deal with. Well she is elderly but still a capable adult. I always find it interesting how elderly people have the stamina to be horrible to theri children but are incapable of resolving some simple issues. I am suppose to got and spend 2 weeks with her in August and I am already thinking about it daily and making myself ill. Every year the same. Instead of enjoying the summer months, I stress about my trip to see her. My DP suggested I book hotel or air bnb to have some respite but I know DM will throw a tantrum about me stying at the hotel. I am convinced hotel is best option because I will have a proper bed to sleep on and peace. I just needed it off my chest but how in my mid 40s I have to constantly think about moods of my mother rather than living my life is crazy. I am exhausted. Still need to work harder on not calling her daily. I feel so sorry for her but I have no self love for myself. Part of me wants to say to her ( I won't) - 'Mum if 25 years you were supportive of my relationship with my first husband we would not have moved away, we would have stayed, had children, today you would have us, a family, all your friends have but guess what You did not like him, you wanted to put a wedge, you told me you will not help out with grandchildren etc so we decided to live our life far away. living far away meant no chidlren as no support network and life happened. Today is a result of yesterday.

I am suppose to got and spend 2 weeks with her in August and I am already thinking about it daily and making myself ill

If you feel that bad then go to hers for one night.

In the future, when she’s dead, you’ll feel really angry about yourself for having pandered to this. You’ll be so so regretful. Do you deserve that? No, you don’t.

Have you done any counselling? If you can afford to, have some sessions. Hearing someone else say ‘well you don’t have to phone her. You don’t have to visit for two weeks. You don’t have to visit at all’ can be really powerful to hear.

What would happen if you didn’t go? She’ll be angry. But she’s angry anyway. Spend the two weeks with your DH or doing some gardening or something.

I agree with you @ThisIsMyYearToFindMyself but the guilt is killing me inside. I never felt enough. I carried that feeling into my adult life and my relationships.
She can be really lovely yet prickly next sentence. Said to me the other day she misses me and when I'm coming to have arguments with her - it was meant in indearing way but gave me a shiver. Almost as if she enjoys it. I don't!
I will be on my own in the future. My DP will not marry me despite long relationship (before you ask he has kids and doesnt want thier inheritance to be shared with 'wife') it sticks in my throat tbh as I see my future as a very lonely person. No family etc but I understand it is a result of 'home' and nature and nurture. Sometimes when DM moans about her situation (and she had a great life) I remind her that I will not have a daughter calling me when I am 70, 80 etc to ask how I am. Few times she said well you make your bad you sleep in it. ok then. DM often says to me what i should say to my DP and how I shoudl say it as giving me advice I did not ask for. She met him twice. I told her that I do know how to speak to my partner and what to say, I am nearly 50 not 15. The treatment as a child I know suppose to be indearing but is in fact tiring. My whole life was lived tuning to my DM moods. I actually never lived my own life. I am either running away or drowning deeply in guilt.

Few times she said well you make your bad you sleep in it. ok then

So in the same way she has made her bed.

I told her that I do know how to speak to my partner and what to say, I am nearly 50 not 15.

Stop telling her anything personal. It’s none of her business.

I actually never lived my own life.

Counselling. Counselling. Counselling.

My DP will not marry me despite long relationship

End the relationship. Does he add anything to your life or is he yet another person who is not satisfying you in any way whatsoever?

This is your life. You can do what you want but it will involve quite a lot of ‘fuck this shit’ to get anything changed.

Completely agree. At this stage it’s trauma bonding, like a scab you keep picking it hurts but kind of feels good and is familiar. It’s at the same time the easiest thing to do, stop phoning her and being so available and the hardest thing to do. But only way to move forward is to stop, make it a habit and it will become second nature.

No no no to spending two weeks with her in August. One week max and you stay in a hotel or Airbnb. She can take it or leave it. She doesn’t even have a bed for you! Stop worrying if she will throw a tantrum or be offended. So what? If she doesn’t like it, you won’t go at all. Stop telling her your business! She knows far too much about your life. You sound as if you have a lot of grief about being divorced and childless, which I hope your therapist can help with. To be honest, I don’t think this is your mother’s fault. You presumably made the decision not to try to have children in your long marriage - or was that driven by your husband? It sounds as if you have put other people’s feelings ahead of your own all your life, but that can stop right now. You are free, with a job and home and savings. Start enjoying your life on your own terms. The baby ship has sailed but you can still have love and fun and adventure. Just stop calling your mum constantly!

Your choice not to have children was your own, many people have them without family support. There is some victim hood that is excessive.

Sorry to be harsh, but I don't think you can blame her for everything.

I think you need to speak to your Aunt and cousins OP. They have cut her off so they will understand her, and understand how to cope with her - they are uniquely placed to help you.

Little update - not expecting anyone to answer here - we have been now dealing with the floding since beginning of March and it is mid May. The daily obsession about the water from upstairs is real and not healthy. DM decided she will go ahead with a letter to the management company about the occupancy upstairs. Friend helped her with a letter and off they go. I did not get the preview of the letter but I did ask my DM whether this letter will be of help or whether it may cause friction and problems going forward. I got shouted at over the phone that 'it will not be my problem so why I bother quizing her'. I replied that this is out of care and consideration but she did not like it and was all defensive. I ended the conversation. If she is like this to me then I do not suspect that the letter will be in a tone of harmonious resolution. When drama hits she then moans to me as if I am suppose to magically fix it. I told DM at the beginning of this saga that first she needs to decide what is the aim of the intervention as for what does she want to achieve for herself, then collect the evidence to support her case and then open a dialogue that would lead to a mutually acceptable resolution. But I am 12 years old and she doesnt want my lecturing. ok.

Just leave her alone then. It’s starting to look like you are involving yourself in all this.

@pivonya You're not grey rocking her, you're getting embroiled in her dramas. Let her do what she wants.

Yep agreed, you need to let her get on with it. Why don't you?

I recommend this
https://www.melrobbins.com/book/the-let-them-theory/

Not usually my sort of thing but my god has it helped!

Why do you care so much that she's having an argument with a neighbour far away from you?

You could, for example, stop answering the phone and only text her. That way, when she's getting annoying, you can just not reply, or answer a few days later.

And why are you visiting her in August? You are doing this to yourself, you blame her but actually you are voluntarily travelling to see her. "Sorry, it's not possible to see you this year", you don't need to engage further.

Why complain about your situation and then continue to do all the things you're complaining about? This is your life, we can give you advice but no-one can live it for you. You're choosing to engage in this drama.

Like a PP said, you don't have to visit her, you don't have to pick up the phone and you don't have to continue a conversation that you're not enjoying. You have total freedom in this.

@BrieOnToast guilt. I feel incredibly guilty. DM is elderly, one day I will be completely on my own. The thought of it makes me feel so so sad. I kind of resigned myself to 'it is how it is but she is my only blood relative, i must forgive and forget'
You all are right but the guilt is overwhelming. I wish I was like you.

Your job is your independence so giving that up to move is a non negotiable.

Limit phone calls to ten minutes once a week or whatever suits you. If the conversation is draining both of you, just close it down.

You need to focus on you and she needs to help herself.

I think you need more times with the therapist to help you talk through this, it is not your fault, she sounds like an incredibly difficult woman and you have handled as you see fit.

if she won’t share the contents of her letter (your suspicions are probably right as to why) just a cheery ok mum hope it gets you some good results, and try and ignore the snarky.

as for August I agree a fortnight is too long, a week max. That should be easy enough to sort out, I’m sorry mum something has come up (if you need a white lie cover at work) If you can’t get back home have a week by the sea.
Definitely stay in a hotel, as you need a bed due to your perimenopausal problems with your back. Other than super fit yoga mums that’s not a lie for most women our age.

As for the phone calls control the narrative, I’m really busy this week mum but I should be able to give you a call Monday? So you can limit it a couple of times a week. Obviously if something happens that you can genuinely help with and she’s nice she could get extra.

it sounds like she thinks the arguments are a good thing and doesn’t realise how much you hate them.

You're not making much sense. You're involved in her dramas because of guilt? You need to get into arguments with her about writing letters because of guilt?