panic and tantrums elderly DM

[boxesand]

I am a regular poster. Mum in her 80s lives on her own and manages well. I live far away from her (another country). I am just here to off load and ask what would you do. This morning DM phones me in panic and I can not understand her, eventually turns out she got flodded by neighbours upstairs but so did others in that block. I am 800miles away and she is asking me to call her neighbours whom I do not know, have no contact details etc. To clarify she wants me to phone the neighbours upstairs but they sold the appartment last month and moved out so we do not know who is the new owner and flat is still empty. I told her I have no details (why would I?) so she says to me to phone that neighbour workplace and say there is a flooding, 'but Mum they are no longer the owners so they will not be able to do anything'. None of her thought process made sense. The moment I started (calmly) telling her what she needs to do (call management company, speak to other neighbours, etc), she gets frustrated and hangs up on me. I try to call back she picks up and hangs up each time deliberately. It happened in the past whenever I do not joing her in her drama she has a tantrum. If I do not agree with her she has a tantrum.
I am unsure how I was suppose to resolve her problem from another country and what was it that she expected. She eventually told me she can not cope, can not imagine having a painter repainting the walls etc and it all has been as if it was litearlly end of the world. Yet whenever I suggest any improvements, she always knows better and does not need to be told. Each time there is drama, she has a tantrum. Her neighbour told her today his piece of mind which offended her, on top everything she has a broken relationship with a family memeber who lives nearby becasue of some animosities and I need to listen to it all and say she is right others are wrong, she is right each time (I do it for peace). My attitude has always been 'choose your battles' and more importantly 'you do not always need to be right even at the cost of relationships specially when you are elderly and vunerable'. It is all extremely exhausting as I have my own life and serious personal problems, I am in therapy which Mnetters suggested after few of my posts and it is all very exhausting. My DM says to me how 'others' have their children nearby to help and she has not got me and how difficult it has been to come to terms with it. She wants me give up on my life (I am childless) and just be there however has no plan where should I live, how should I earn income etc. I know if I sacrifised my life, it would destroy me, I would not have any privacy there and space. My DM even asked me the other day about my long term life plans because she wants to know as in her view I am passive and not have much impetus. I am mid life and always felt controlled. I am divorced and currently in a v difficult relationship. I started therapy which I keep secret but equally feel like I'm getting more control over my life through those sessions. Really looking to ask what would you do long term? How do you set boundaries with elderly?

Does your mum have any support workers etc at all? Is this something you'd be able to arrange, rather than moving back with her (which from what you said, wouldn't be a good idea for you). If she's in the UK, Age UK offer a home helper service (paid for), which might suit Home help services | Age UK. They offer things like companionship, help with shopping etc, rather than things like dressing and bathing which it doesn't sound like your mum needs. Someone popping in and out the house might provide her peace of mind and stop her working herself up into a panic.

It does sound as though she needs some professional support but it doesn't have to be you that provides it.

Could you organise a paid carer or companion for a few hours a week. If you organised that for her you could then step back.

No advice but sympathies. My mum hung up on me yesterday because I questioned why she thought her dog would choke on normal dog sized dry dog food.

@xmasdealhunter no she doesn't live in the UK and she would not want help. With help like that she would have to behave whilst with me she feels she can misbehave.
She already told me how she will refuse going to a care home in the future.
I phoned this evening to ask how has she been after the morning drama but she told me with an attiude that she doesnt want to speak to me, she wants to me on her own with her own thoughts. That is how I remember her as a child always wondering what mood DM will be in. So she finished the conversation no asking how I was, how was my day, no thank you for your suggestions, sorry for being in panic this morning. No no no, now the tantrum continues and it kind of looks as if I caused the leak 800 miles away. It is really upsetting.

@Gcn ah your DM probably thought that you asking her means implying she can not look after her dog or something obscure. There often is that far fetched misinterpretation...

It must be hard to cope with such things on your own though.

The tantrum is her stress at having to sort out a problem.

Could you offer to get the ball rolling by
phoning the management company and asking them to phone her? You are taking the first step then.

Or could you send her a draft of an email for her to send to them?

It's likely damage could be covered by the block's building insurance.

Sometimes it can be valuable to ask yourself:
"If a male colleague at work was telling me this, what would I think it was reasonable for him to do?"
The expectations for men are slimmer but they're still not supposed to let their mum be in serious danger, so it gives a useful perspective.

Also, "is this helping anyone?"

For example, in the current situation, it doesn't sound as if you could do much more than have a bash at finding the management company's details and trying to get in touch.
...
You being on the phone to your mum doesn't seem to make either of you happy or improve things. If she complains, "...well Mum, you weren't happy with any of my suggestions and hung up on me... What is the point of me ringing you again?"

In an ideal world where she was (ha!) in touch with reason and reality, what do you think she would choose to do? I ask that last one because it may be that all the choices are a bit rubbish and that would make anyone cranky :/

@boxesand
Good the therapy is continuing.
My understanding from past threads was that you were trying to put in further boundaries with DM and 'be less available'.
She will have another drama next weekend and a further one at the start of March and then a brand new one for Easter.
If I remember correctly there is good reason why you are physically distanced from her. Remember your own projects and goals and try to think of those instead of her never-ending list.

I should have clarified - when she phoned me with the drama, the management company was already on their way (called by the other neighbour). Her flat was one of three that were affected. The new owners of the flat where the pipe bursted arrived swiftly and - do not mind me say that - I know my DM and that the drama was dialing down but she had to keep it up so that I can feel guilty that I am not there 'helping her'. Yet she is in conflict with neighbours, family members etc. My point is not that she is not capable, my point is that she seeks attention through these drama outbursts and guilt trips. This has been affecting my entire life for decades. Over the years she refused to have an email and computer, she refused to have a smartphone, absolutely any modern solution is rejected and she plays that victim of the society and it is everybodys fault. I wrote here about my 15 years battle to get a sofa bed when I go there to visist because yes for all these years I have nowhere to sleep other than a chaise lounge. I am here for a rant and really to find out how others cope. She would not accept any help (her mantality is what would the neighbours say) and the country she lives in doesnt offer what UK system offers in terms of care. I am in the UK.

How do others cope?
simple answer is you don’t cope and there is an almighty crazy car crash of things going wrong. It all implodes as you predicted but not quite as you predicted.

Then you dust yourself down and pick up the pieces and deal with the bits you absolutely have to but let other bits fail 💛

My mum used to complain about a lot of things, I would offer suggestions or solutions, which she always ignored. Eventually my stock response was "What do you want me to do?". She could hardly ever tell me what she wanted. But I didn't feel so frustrated.

@Mum5net very true
@Hadalifeonce my DM has a friend whose daughter's response to all the drama is always 'what do you expect me to do Mum?' and apparently the friend (and my Mum) gets offended by such response. The elderly demand you magic up an instant solution, they demand answers, attention. They demand a lot but there is never a consideration for us - what we are going through. One way street. Always.

Someone here on another post I read said very poignant words - poster asked whether she should give up her life to look after her DM and every response was 'no' whereas one added 'your mum had her life, you can not give up on yours'. It was powerful.

Your mum needs help. She has no-one else. If you can't or won't help her, you find the support she needs and arrange it for her. She can pay if she has money. But you need to give some input, of time, thought and energy.

@StopStartStop she has a sister - NC for 25 years lives nearby, she has a cousin lives next street not talking because of god knows what. She has very nice neighours yet every person is something for some reason. To ilustrate the absurd one neighbour lives above her, she has no reason to go on that floor, yet she does go to snoop around and she gest annoyed that said neighbour leaves shoes on their doorstep (not her doorstep) and tells me how she is going to go and through their shoes to the bin. I explained to her she can not do it but she is adamand she can so I told her they may have the doorbell with the camera and will be able to see what she has done.
I set up variety of easy solutions for her but nothing is ever good enough. My suggestions are always wrong but if next day a stranger suggests exactly the same thing - oh that person is so clever and had such a wonderful idea. It is great to offer help and be always rejected. I am being sarcastic because I am sure that those in similar situation as me would agree - we are never good enough, the input is never enough.

@boxesand
It’s difficult to take a step back when you have been conditioned to put her first.
you are a seasoned responder; but things might yet change.
in my experience, x3, eventually the power shifted and the parent couldn’t call the shots and we had to decide the next stages
I’m not for a minute suggesting you will relish this, but the reverse situation brings a different perspective and maybe a little respite and healing in a strange way

I called tonight and got absolutely torn to pieces by her agressive attitude. Last night it felt as if I was the one who flooded her but today she managed to shift it all even further making me feel responsbile for everything.
Yet I found out from a neighbour that she had a massive fall out with them. They are actually very nice but she managed to isolate them as well. When I asked her today for details she said she doesnt want to talk about it which indicates to me the neighbours probably spoke their mind and she did not like it.
Then it turned out that the flooding was not from the flat above but even further above her so her logic of me phoning a workplace of the woman who was formely the neighbour above (and due to GDPR I would not get her number anyway) be pointless because the source of flooding was not there.
Funny she actually said today 'oh you only get people run around if you cause drama'. Bizarre to admit that.
My DM has always been very opinionated, sometimes no filters and she has been gradualy isolating people from her. I moved out at 21 for a reason. That is nearly 3 decades ago.
So tonight it was all about how her friends went for a sunday walk and she was stuck at home emptying wet cupboards. One cupboard. How in a months time she will have to attend the garden (she has another place) and how difficult it is. I arranged 4 gardeners and each came once. They want to have a bi weekly visit and she wants a gardner twice a year. Pointless.
Yet when I was getting married and with my then husband we could have been involved in the other place helping out and using the space in the summer we were not allowed. When we announced we wanted to get married me 24 him 28 we got laughed off, when I said I look forward to getting married and having a baby I was told DM will not be helping with grandchild. Eventually after many other awful incidents I went NC for 8 years. I never had children, got divorced and only in therapy all started to make sense. She tries to guilt trip me more and more but has no solid plan and her solution is to blame me and put me down.
I am astonished how she doesnt see the cause and effect. I mean the people who today at 85 have their children nearby are the people who where there emotionally available for their children when they needed them.
In my late 40s with problems (relationship, health, work, finances etc) I have, I am not going to give up on myself. I am the only child and have absolutely nobody. It's the last 12 months she became very self centered and I suspect she fallen out with many people as I do not hear her mention those she used to.

oh and to add the conversation was like bleeding the stone so I patiently asked her if she wanst to finish and we speak tomorrow to which she had to end the conversation in her spiteful style with 'well when you are 85 and live alone you will see how difficult life is' oh the guilt trip, the peace of Sunday evening, the soft start to a busy week. slapping you around even from miles away.

Eh no, it's not up to the OP to solve this from abroad. It sounds like the reason her mother has nobody else is because of how she treats people.

OP for your own sake I would step back from her and be less available, nothing you ever do will be good enough (unless you give up your whole life and move countries to serve her). Fuck that.

OP's mum has no-one else because she is an unpleasant person who has driven everyone away. It's obvious that OP had an awful childhood with her mum. OP is under no obligation, legal or otherwise, to arrange help for her mum, particularly as her mum won't tell her what she wants from OP. She won't accept carers so she will need to manage on her own.

Hmm. I don't agree but that's fine.

If OP arranges support, her mum might even refuse the support workers and send them away, given her current state of mind. She hasn't been able to tell OP what she needs so how can OP arrange exactly what she wants?

No easy answers op. My mother same 80s. There are 3 us we do what we can.. have you other siblings. Mine fell out with neighbours so that doesnt help either. Its hard as you say.

@boxesand my 83 year old DM is just the same. Here is how I deal!!! with it….

understand that she doesn’t want you to solve anything nor does she want answers or suggestions. What she wants is your attention. If you resolve the situation swiftly, she won’t like it because she wouldn’t have your attention for long.

You should do what you can within reason so YOU know you have done all you can. That doesn’t mean you drop everything and dash to her aid. It sounds like it’s being resolved without you being present. What are your personal boundaries? Stick to them!

I don’t try and resolve all my Mums problems anymore. I try to understand what it’s like for her and give as much as I can. After that, I ignore her behaviour or I tell her I am busy and have to get off the phone.

It’s not easy due to the years of manipulation and guilt tripping but I think what’s the worse she will do. Not speaks to me!? Perfect 👌