Having the conversation with aging parents: what to sort/know before they are too old?

[lechatnoir]

Parents are 79&81 and in pretty good health & and living fully independently. However, a recent health scare for my dad & discussion about downsizing (long overdue) has made me realise they are not getting any younger. If one or both suddenly died or became incapacitated, I would be utterly clueless about their affairs or their wishes and need to broach the subject.

My dad is very organised & risk averse so I imagine he has his affairs in order already but think my sibling & I need to have a conversation about what that looks like, where to find documents, if they have given POA to each other/us etc.

Any pointers for sensitively starting the conversation with very private parents - we were never an open discussion family so this is likely to be an awkward conversation for them. And a tick list of this what I need to know in addition to:..

• Location of wills (do I need to ask about contents?)
• Assess/details of bank accounts, stocks & shares
• Life assurance or other insurance payments
• POA (not sure what is needed here so any pointers helpful)

Much appreciated. Quite nervous about it but fool the sooner I encourage more open conversation the easier it will be longer term.

You don't need to know contents of wills.
They should have POAs.
Online login info is helpful.

We are doing more and more for my parents, not yet exercised poas, but doing things with their authorisation.

Most useful for me has been to be added to their bank account as a trusted friend. I can now pay care bills etc for them online. (They don't do online banking.)

When discussing LPA make sure it's put in place for health/care needs AND finance. Very difficult to put a plan in place to meet health needs without access to the finances to support it.

Age UK is a good starting point for info www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

Do you have POA sorted out for yourself? It’s never too early - I have friends in their 50s who have organised POAs with their adult children! I just thought if you could mention to them that you were doing it for yourself and thinking about putting your own affairs in order (or updating, if you already have), it would be an ideal opening to discuss what they had in mind to do.

Why not start the conversation by saying you’re thinking about writing your own will, can they recommend the firm that did theirs? Do they store it for you or do you need to keep it at home? Then you can go into have you made a list of all your banks to go with the will?

I would add to this:

• in respect of everything on this list, WRITE IT DOWN. Open a word file on a laptop, write it all down, save it and print it out as well and put it in a safe place so you have the information to hand and you know where it is.

• their pension information. Where it is, how many pensions, check the dependents information is properly recorded and the surviving spouse is named.

• where they keep everything financial very specifically as in - "my pension documents are in the green folder in the bottom drawer of the desk in the spare room" or "my pension documents are stored electronically on my laptop in the folder Documents/Home Stuff/Financial/Pension".

• go through all the utilities, mobile phone, car tax and council tax (and anything else like that) and find out how they are paid (whether by Direct Debit or pay as you go, if direct debit which accounts).

• with main bills like utitilites, it's useful to cross register power of attorneys if you have them - so if your mother is PoA for your father and vice versa and the gas bill is in the name of your father alone, get your mother to register her PoA for your father registered with the gas supplier. This means in the event of a problem like loss of capacity, it is all ready to go and they will deal with her. It's not essential and lower down the list as a priority but it can save hassle.

• It is useful to know (if you don't already) how they organise their financial life in a top line sense - some couples one does everything and the other has no idea. This can cause huge problems if Does Everything dies before No Idea. No Idea is left floundering. If you are in this situation, then if you have all the info, you are in a stronger position because you will know straight away more help will be needed from you.

• if their mortgage is paid off, check with the land registry that the charge has been removed from the registry. If it hasn't you will need to sort this out and it will be much easier if they are alive to tell you where the documents are/ who the mortgage was with and so on.

• if they use online banking or online accounts for anything (including Amazon,), it's very helpful if you have a record of their passwords. If at this point they don't want to give them to you, then they should know each others. If you don't have a secure method to store this or are worried, you can do this by creating separate lists that you keep apart - one sheet of paper, two columns - one side numbered websites, other side passwords numbered in the same way then slice it in two and store them separately.

• Computer lock screen password. Mobile phone password.

• Access to any photo apps or Apple photo storage. get any 'important' photos or videos you love downloaded and copied now.

• ask about anything random that you might want to know after they aren't here. This is very personal but example are - your mums recipe for your favorite thing she cooked; why/where they bought certain things in the house ( mums favourite picture or vase type of thing),

• if they aren't the sort of people who wrote the names of individuals on the back of photos, go through photo albums with them and get them to tell you who these people are and write it on the back - or get them to do it.

• sit down with them and get them to chat through their life chronologically as if you were going to write a mini-biog. Where they were at school, dates they left, where they worked, when they met - all of this. You will think you know but you don't know it with any precision and won't have dates etc. It's a nice thing to have and helpful when it comes to obituaries or eulogies because that is a time when you can barely think.

• check that you know what their funeral wishes are and whether there is anything their will about this. Cremation or burial. What do they want to be wearing (do they care) or a shroud. Service - religious or not. and so on.

With POA you would know if you/your sibling had been written as their attorneys - you definitely need to make sure they have given POA down to the next generation. (I'm in my 60s and have done my POA with my kids as attorneys).

We pitched it to the PIL by saying we were doing ours and had they done theirs? They then did their wills at the same time.

As someone in the last third of life, this is a sensitive topic. I have put my affairs in order, and kids have everything they could need. If one of them approached me to discuss, I'd need it to be kind and sensitive. Facing your own mortality is tough. That being said, it is me who has raised it with them. I feel everyone should discuss death regularly, it is inevitable and I've been hugely helped dealing with it for someone who planned it

As someone in the last third of life, this is a sensitive topic.

This is very much a personality thing and also depends on your job and life experience. Eg. people who are very pragmatic, people who have had jobs where they deal with death or serious illness tend to be much more relaxed and open about this sort of thing.

Some people are 'can't even bear to think about it'. It's very much a horses for courses in terms of approach based on personality.

I'd start off assuming you are dealing with someone who is in the head in the sand can't bear it too sensitive category and approach it like that. If it turns out they are more relaxed/practical, then you'll find out. If you are in an uphill struggle situation you will have started from a good platform.

A kind of 'fun' job like going through old photos and labeling them - a memory lane trip - is no bad way to lead in.

Online login info is helpful.

For bank accounts - Do NOT get them to write down log in details, or PINs. It's a breach of the T&Cs for bank accounts. You should never need to log in to someone else's bank account.
(Ok for services etc. though!).

Some of the items on your and other's list I find quite intrusive, my parents would hate to be treated like this and it is quite infantalising.

I only check they have an up to date, signed will and ask that they keep their most key papers / documents in a safe place that is clearly accessible.

Slowly over time we dropped this into the convo when it seemed suitable. Got POA sorted, knew where her will was (not what was in it, no need at that point). Asked once what funeral arrangements she wanted, she laughed and said I don’t care, do what you like, lol. As dementia developed she was in no fit state to tell us anything so glad we had the info early.

Some of the items on your and other's list I find quite intrusive, my parents would hate to be treated like this and it is quite infantalising

Good luck when you have to deal with someone with dementia. You may not realise they can't remember something crucial until it is too late.

Infirmity in old age is infantalising. It's good to be prepared.

Thank you all really helpful - lots I hadn't thought of and I like the drip feed approach as they are strongly in denial about aging and if I bowled in with a to do list of 'things I'll need when you die' they'd be mortified and no doubt shut down the conversation.
I'm seeing them this week so will start with the we're updating our wills and it got me thinking approach.

The worst thing is clearing the house. So if they are looking at downsizing that’s a good time to get through everything.
Be aware that if you make a financial POA active you will start to get your parents statements etc straight away. Which might be a bit annoying for everyone.
If your dad is organised anyway it should be quite straightforward when the time comes.

My dad made a death folder and kept it updated.

Then when he died I worked through it.

Ask how they split their money, is it all in one account in one name or in a joint account. Just something to bear in mind if needing to pay for care

I provided a lot of care for my grandparents, and Age UK had a really helpful booklet that took you through all the different things to consider, with space to write stuff down - they probably still do something similar. We already had PoA sorted at this point. Grandma and I gradually worked out way through the booklet over a couple of weeks. My mum and uncle found the booklet really helpful after Grandma died - partly for knowing where documents were etc but also because we'd included the hymns, catering, who to invite, preferred location, preferred funeral director, readings, who she wanted doing the eulogy etc for her funeral, so it was mostly planned for them. Shed even chosen the photos for the order of service and specified that we were to use "best ham" in the sandwiches at the funeral tea.
What I found really helpful is that filling in the booklet gave me and Grandma the opportunity to talk through her wishes around death, and so I was able to advocate for her around end of life care and ensure her wishes were respected.

@Vegboxwonder specified that we were to use "best ham" in the sandwiches at the funeral tea.

That is lovely. thank you for posting that. it made me smile softly and think how lovely your Grandma must have been.

My parents were the last “oldies” alive in both their families. I asked my mum to help me write all the facts she could remember about the family tree and her childhood and early married life. It was amazing to go through it all. I wish I had recorded more of her voice.

Oh and also, take cuttings of favourite plants in their garden! When the family home is sold, it is lovely to have some plants to remember it by.

Where the keys are for various things.
If there's a safe, you don't need the keys now but you do need to know where it is and where the keys are, if it holds things like passports or birth certificates.

If a couple has a joint account for shared household expenses then the survivor simply inherits it.
IF THEY DON'T and the deceased paid the bills, the survivor has to contact all the suppliers - energy, mobile, broadband, council tax, water, etc - and get the account transferred. Ask me how I know.

Video them pointing at old photos and saying who is in them, it's quicker than writing on the back and works for albums you want to leave intact, plus you get the anecdotes too.

Make sure you know where the POA is, the actual document gets sent back to the "donor". Apparently you can order a replacement doc for £35 though.

Make sure you know where the POA is, the actual document gets sent back to the "donor". Apparently you can order a replacement doc for £35 though.

I would suggest in respect of each PoA( Health and finance) for each person when it arrives, get a certified copy of it. This is where you take it to a solicitor who copies the original and certifies on each page (hence its a faff as the document is quite a lot of pages - can't remember how many but its basically the whole form you send off so about 10 - 20 pages) that it is a true copy of the original.

This is really helpful because then it means if you ever need to show or send someone the original PoA (many places are not signed up to the electronic version) that you have a valid copy that is ready to go. Very often if you need the PoA it is in an emergency situation so if you get a certified copy when you are not in a rush and don't need it, it saves a lot of aggravation and stress later as well as worrying about sending off the original or having to travel somewhere because you don't want to risk loosing it in the post.

Elderly MIL recently passed away and one piece of advice I can give you is please check any life policy /funeral plan they may have taken out to pay for their funeral. MIL thought she had easily covered the cost of her funeral via a specific life policy taken out for this purpose but if only we'd seen the paperwork whilst she was still alive, we'd have noticed that she'd paid in far too much and was still continuing to make monthly payments even though she'd reached the maximum needed to be paid in for what would eventually be paid out (very strange policy). She'd paid in over 12k and we had a payout of 4k which was nowhere near enough to cover the cost of the funeral she wanted. We ended up paying the extra between the family as she had a very small estate. I've learned from this that you have to have these, sometimes difficult, conversations, especially if parents are very elderly (MIL was late 90s).