DM refusing any kind of professional help.

[JenniferBooth]

She is a falls risk but has refused help. My dad died back in October. My niece lives there with her but works full time. DM had an accident on BD and cut her leg badly. Paramedics came out and wanted to take her to hospital due to dangerously high blood pressure but she refused to go. DN went on holiday for a week for NY (booked last summer) DM tried to guilt trip her into not going by saying she probably wouldnt be alive when she got back.
Social presciber from DMs surgery phoned me last week Offering falls pendant and key safe. DM doesnt want either. She shouted that she doesnt want carers coming in despite being unable to bathe. And that if they turn up she will tell them to go away. She said that DB does it (care) and will not listen to me or DN (DBs daughter) DB works full time. Shifts all over the place. He is run ragged and cant keep doing it. Lost so much weight. DM is emotionally abusive She was fucking awful to my dad saying it wasnt prostate cancer and that it was an STI. He was 88 when he died and diagnosed last spring. I have bowel issues and get moaned at when i need the loo too many times when im round there.
I cant commit to her care due to other commitments. some of which are foisted upon me because i rent
And im not willing to do it while being moaned at and shouted at all the time. Shes very hard of hearing , refuses to use a hearing aid and then accuses people of saying stuff they havent then moaning and shouting about me having to raise my voice. I wont do her care Im just not doing it. I phoned adult social care three a half weeks ago but if shes going to refuse carers its a waste of an assesment

A phrase used on another thread on this board was sometimes it's just a choice of which turd to tread in. There is no easy or miracle solution. Your brother has 2 choices 1) carry on as he is 2) step back and let the crisis happen as often that's the only way to get acceptance of outside help.

Nothing you can do a stubborn elderly person digs their heels in.
Your brother is suffering from FOG.
You have to wait for the crisis to happen.
Usually goes like this :
Person falls breaks something goes into hospital.
When ready ti discharge tells hospital that they don't need carers because their son/daughter/ dn will care for them - even though they work 40 hours and if they carry on will need hospital themselves.

Is there poa in place, what's the house set up, does she own or rent. Is your neiçe going to continue living there, she can put a keysafe up. Can mum do anything herself like cook, clean,wash, finances. Your brother needs to step back, see his GP and explain this can't continue. If he and nice want to look after her they ne3d a carers assessment. I'd let her social prescriber know, if she has capacity she can refuse anything, infor, adult social services safeguarding team, there may be a fragility unit at the GP who could put her in their system but there's not much else you can all do except walk away and if she falls she falls.

Does your mum definitely have mental capacity to make these decisions?

If so she has the legal right to make unwise decisions and as a family you need to agree how much you are willing and able to do for her and spell it out to her. Then let the inevitable unfold. If not and there is a power of attorney in place, that person has the legal right to act in her best interests.

DM broke her hip in September 2022 and still didnt learn

She has refused a key safe and the falls pendant I explained to her several times last night that she cant have the latter without the former
The social prescriber is ringing me again tomorrow morning

I'm a bit confused. My parents had falls alarm with no key safe. Also, lose the idea that your mum has to agree to the keysafe, it just sits on an outside wall, she doesn't even need to acknowledge its existence!! Particularly if your niece lives there then just put it up. As far as the care assessment goes, it's not a waste as the assessor can sometimes make it sound like someone coming round to help with the laundry etc rather than 'carers' then they increase the package as the needs increase. Yes, if she has capacity, she can refuse, but it can be useful that she's on adult services radar when the problems start increasing.
You don't have to even think about doing her care, your DB has to make his own decisions on what he wants to do.
My sister and I agreed we would do several 'life admin' tasks but anything personal care related is done by carers. My mum is now in a care home due to advanced dementia and my dad has physical care needs so receives 4 care visits a day.
Decide your own personal boundary and stick to it.

A keysafe is always useful to keep a spare set of keys in, plus the emergency services, nurses, I'd just put it up and let the social prescriber try and talk to her, it's unfair on everyone but like ppl says your dB and dn need to decide what they are prepared to do and live.

This post has helped me make my mind up about what to tell the SP tomorrow. DM was SHOUTING that she didnt want it. Belive me she will see through it and throw the care assesor out But ive decided to let this happen as
I cant seem to get this across to people so im also going to go ahead with the key safe. When she comes out of the house shouting the odds at least then other people can see what shes like. When words dont work all im left with are actions..

The social prescriber told me she has to agree to it Its fitted by the council. Not having a go btw Sorry if it comes across that way.

We were filling in the AA form last night. She shouted and moaned that shes never had anything out of the Government then in the same breath asked why we were taking so long to fill the form in and that they wanted to know too much

You can buy a keysfae online and fit it yourself,mit doesn't need to involve the council, is she is council accommodation?

@JenniferBooth ah ok... you can buy a keysafe from pretty much anywhere (amazon etc) and put it up. The social prescriber seems to be describing a service which is linked to the falls alarm, though I've never come across that (have worked for adult services in a couple of different counties, but that's not saying you're not correct and your mums local authority expects the recipient to give permission!)
My mum was shouting and screaming at everyone and actively blocking my dad from receiving assistance with double incontinence so we had to get used to just doing it anyway. As I say, you have no obligation to do any care and if she continues to refuse you just have to wait for her to hit crisis.
Even if its council/housing association you don't need permission for a key safe

@Lightuptheroom that must have been incredibly stressful. Thankyou im just going to have to do it anyway

DM does own her own home. However some HAs do like to be difficult
https://www.justanswer.co.uk/property-law/84xp8-live-sheltered-housing-put-key-safe-door.html

I hear you love.. I'm a carer for my 77 year old husband... he is no problem, HOWEVER his 80 year Sister is becoming an escalating problem for DH family. On talking to the very eldest Sister myself it would seem that the 80 year old has been extremely manipulative her whole life, we are now in the realms of she will do very little for herself, is constantly ringing certain family members numerous times through the day and I have private concerns that she may be being a bit of a nuisance to her neighbour. She becomes hysterical, turning on tears very quickly, can't cope with anything and can be demanding. A huge red flag is that she has several children, the majority of whom are estranged for decades, of those still speaking to her, one has moved a distance away leaving only one to deal with her.. She was widowed some years ago and things have gone downhill since. Due to her behaviour I have raised the possibility of Dementia with the very eldest Sister who agrees that she thinks the beginnings of it are there but currently she would pass a memory assessment. With regard to your Brother, to be blunt, he needs to save his soul and his health. I have worked in both homes and in the community with the elderly and believe you me I have seen whole families brought to their knees by one elderly person. As other commenters have said there may have to be a fall before help can be got in. I also read that she can be difficult with accepting help or aids, this will be our 80 year old to a tee. I did say to DH only yesterday that his 80 year old Sister is going to be difficult, non compliant and will do her utmost to prevent any assistance going in. Her Mother was exactly the same. I'm keeping DH out of anything practical as he is frail and medically complex. Unfortunately love, these situations don't get better, they escalate until something has to be done and that's where social services step in.

This exactly.. and remember that cunning elderly people can be plausible liars.

@Donenow1 what a sobering post. You could easily have been speaking about my own mother in terms of your DH sister. Everything you said is our situation except there are only 3 of us and we aren’t estranged just on our knees. Also our mother is not a widow our Dad is in a nursing facility. It irks me when our brother tells anyone who will listen that Mum is ‘ill’. We have no diagnosis and frankly is he thinks she is ‘ill’ now then she has been ‘ill’ her whole life. Nothing is ever right. She knows better than everyone. She passed the test with a geriatric consultant with flying colours. She refuses any external help. Our Dad ended up much worse than he needed to be because of some incredibly poor life choices mainly guided by our mother. She has alienated everyone friends and family who clearly stuck it out for the sake of our Dad. everyone has scarpered and I cannot blame them. She has spent her life being cunning, manipulative and controlling. She lies to garner sympathy. Am I bitter - yes. Our brother is making out she is a sweet little old lady we should feel sorry for. She is cold, uncaring and does not see any problem playing mind games. Yes I know about boundaries and I know I have a choice - but it is hard when people wade in - my sister in law most recently- telling me I should be doing more. Why? Nothing is ever right. If this was a relationship with a partner I would be looking at my mother and accusing her of being coercive and controlling. Grrr. I feel the pain of this awful place we are all in so much. At my age my parents were free to do what they wanted, travelling etc we are stuck barely able to have a weekend away and always on tenterhooks when the phone rings.

@Donenow1 I can relate totally DH is 75 in March. He has COPD and ischemic heart disease and arthritis He uses a mobility scooter because his breathing is such that he cant walk
We live in a HA flat and our housing officer told us back in 2017 that unless DH got rid of his mobility scooter it would be destroyed. After i fought back. (i went through the "proper" channels first then i had to resort to social media) DH got a storage shed which he happily pays for. It was the way they approached us about it that i objected to and i also got laughed at on this site when ive posted about it before.

DM owns her house. This gives her choices. It gives her a lot more choice. She can put in what she likes in the house Whearas my DBs MIL isnt allowed to put a stairlift in her HA house.

There is another thread running at the moment where i linked the keysafe thing above. Straight away someone has leapt on it saying Tough you have to ask permission as its HA even if your neighbours have one.
DM does not have to put up with all this crap and can have all the modifications she needs as she doesnt have some official getting off on controlling her. Yet she refuses.
DN is going on holiday again for two weeks in summer (which shes entitled to do so DM will be on her own for a fortnight.

Your brother needs to decide if he wants to continue looking after mum, especially as nice is going on holiday. He is entitled to say no, get a carers assessment and tell mum she will need carers in. If she still refuses and has capacity there's nothing anyone can do until she accepts help or suffers an emergency.

While a keysafe should be attached to a wall of course, in fact you could just hide it somewhere outside the house. It will keep the key safe, you’d still need the code to get the key. Elderly friend had hers hidden behind a plant pot.

@BlueLegume I've decided that if DH starts getting plagued by numerous daily calls then I will be cutting that off at the pass.. as I mentioned previously she is an escalating problem and I KNOW that having had a conversation with her housing manager that she has been telling lies, and big ones. I'm getting the feeling that she may be becoming a concern to the Housing Team too due to her behaviour. I have warned DH that if she does become troublesome to the neighbours then there is no law stopping them ringing social services to raise concerns, it is quite within their rights to do so.

@JenniferBooth how did you get on with the social prescribing team. I think in your situation sadly you are going to have to let things fail before you can get help in. I've absolutely decided that DH is not going to get involved barring the odd phone call. What troubles me about these elderly threads is that SO MANY families are in the same boat with their elderly.

DM is adamant she doesnt want any of it She flatly refuses carers or anyone in her home. The social prescriber rang me back last Monday and she told me to contact them if DM changes her mind.

@JenniferBooth feel for you. Just hope you keep us updated- so many of us constantly on edge with this situation.

I'm old and frail.

I also have an adult child and their partner who share a home with me.

They are a fantastic help, but I've got every other "help" I can get. I pay for a cleaner and someone to do my ironing. I have three rolatters(like Zimmer frames on wheels) a chair lift, a walk in shower, a shower chair and a stick that helps me pick up objects too low for me to get to.

At the moment I can do my physical care (shower, toilets ect). When the time comes, if it comes, I'll pay to get people in to help me.

It really gets on my fucking tits when old people, like me, just won't/cannot accept the fact that they are frail.

If we are "lucky" we will all get old and need help. That doesn't mean we have to drive family members into an early grave because we insist that they help us, rather than those who can be paid to do so.

@user1471453601 you sound awesome…..you are awesome