DM refusing any kind of professional help.

[JenniferBooth]

She is a falls risk but has refused help. My dad died back in October. My niece lives there with her but works full time. DM had an accident on BD and cut her leg badly. Paramedics came out and wanted to take her to hospital due to dangerously high blood pressure but she refused to go. DN went on holiday for a week for NY (booked last summer) DM tried to guilt trip her into not going by saying she probably wouldnt be alive when she got back.
Social presciber from DMs surgery phoned me last week Offering falls pendant and key safe. DM doesnt want either. She shouted that she doesnt want carers coming in despite being unable to bathe. And that if they turn up she will tell them to go away. She said that DB does it (care) and will not listen to me or DN (DBs daughter) DB works full time. Shifts all over the place. He is run ragged and cant keep doing it. Lost so much weight. DM is emotionally abusive She was fucking awful to my dad saying it wasnt prostate cancer and that it was an STI. He was 88 when he died and diagnosed last spring. I have bowel issues and get moaned at when i need the loo too many times when im round there.
I cant commit to her care due to other commitments. some of which are foisted upon me because i rent
And im not willing to do it while being moaned at and shouted at all the time. Shes very hard of hearing , refuses to use a hearing aid and then accuses people of saying stuff they havent then moaning and shouting about me having to raise my voice. I wont do her care Im just not doing it. I phoned adult social care three a half weeks ago but if shes going to refuse carers its a waste of an assesment

@BlueLegume thanks for the complement, but i won't take it.

it makes sense to me that we do what we can for ourselves, and what we cannot do for ourselves we pay for (if we have the means).

but just refusing to accept outside of the families help, is just cruel toward the family.

if you have the means, pay for what you need. If you don't have the means, then look to social care, which the majority of old people have paid for, for other generations.

just don't let your loved ones drive themselves into the ground by selfishly refusing to accept outside help.

it's one of my big gripes on this forum, when women at the end of their tether are being made to feel worse because an elderly relative will not accept the reality of their own situation.

@user1471453601 great post. Makes so much sense. I do feel lots of us have navigated difficult parents and perhaps hope they may mellow. They don’t. Hugs and sleep well 😴

@user1471453601 great post. Makes so much sense. I do feel lots of us have navigated difficult parents and perhaps hope they may mellow. They don’t. Hugs and sleep well 😴

Then the fall must happen Jennifer, as it will with DH Sister, the situation WILL escalate and collapse.

Absolutely spot on but having worked with the elderly I would add that many, many of them do this as a form of control.

My Dad has the alarm without the key safe too.

Well the fall happened on Good Friday. DM was in and out of hospital that day. DB And DN went with her . Shes hurt her ribs She had blood tests which they wernt told the result of. Left the hospital at 3.15 after seven hours, At 4pm he got a call from the hospital saying DM was being discharged. So back he went It would take too long to explain all the ins and outs of it here but it was a fucking shambles.
The day before (Thursday) DM was feeling very ill Ambulance was called at around 12 pm My DNiece called them and was told it was a nine hour wait for one. It never showed. This morning the paramedics were called again and she now has soluable morphine. Which DB had to run to the chemist for before they shut.
She spent the entire morning today upstairs Last night she was deliberately restricting fluids as she was in the living room downstairs and didnt want to risk having to go upstairs. Yet refuses a stairlift or a commode.
She was refusing carers and any other help as ive documented here. Today DN got her to confirm that she now wants carers while i was on speakerphone Then she said "oh i might get better and wont need them" On Tuesday DNiece (TA in a SEN school) goes back to work as does DB so she will be completely on her own. Has asked for incontinence pads but waits until im already round there (last night) knowing that i dont drive All i had on me were a couple of TENA lady pads which i gave her. She knew i was going round but doesnt think to get my niece to text me beforehand so i can get some. Will ring Adult Social Care on Tuesday but dont hold out much hope that DM will go along with it. IMO this was an unsafe discharge

My mother was very similar in her last years - she refused all professional help despite it being offered many times but all to no avail. I had a similar situation too in that my brother was used as a cover story to insist on an unsafe discharge. My brother did his best but due to his own issues and limitations was not really up to the task. At the time, I was caring for a disabled child who required 24/7 care, a sick husband and another child so you might have thought accepting professional help was really the only option ? Wrong ! Everything had to be sacrificed to the ideal of refusing all professional help. All I can advise is that you and your brother present a united front and insist that your help from now on is going to be focussed on getting adaptations and carers in and not much else.

Thank You DB and DN help her up and down the stairs. Its bloody dangerous and i shall be refusing to do it. Its dangerous for her and for whoever is on the stairs with her. I dont want to risk ending up with a life changing injury. Disabled ppl and carers dont get looked after in this cuntry They get persecuted so why should i risk it

I am heartily sick of old people running their relatives ragged without a care. Who DEMAND that their wishes are followed. Who don’t care who they inconvenience - what they want is what they want and sod the rest OFMUS.

My parents weren’t aggressive but they were demanding and caused a lot of issues to me. Siblings lived abroad and I was on speed dial to almost half of the county!

The only thing I can say is that you must have boundaries. Dont stand any nonsense. If a key safe is needed then it goes in. There is no discussion. If she demands it is taken down refuse. Don’t engage. These elderly people cannot ruin peoples lives.

My Mum was tiny but when I tried to pick her up after a fall she was a dead weight. My Father once was walking too fast with his stick. I told him to slow down but he didn’t listen. I ended up grabbing him as he fell and he fell on top of me. He was over 15 stone at the time. I managed to roll a little so didn’t get the whole of his weight but I was extremely lucky.

RANT OVER

Just phoned Adult Social Care They wont lift a finger until she gives them permission to speak to DB or me over the phone. Shes DEAF she cant hear and refuses to use a hearing aid

I think there is this belief that relatives can somehow work miracles

Just back away. Dont dance to their tune. Adult SC wont want to take any responsibility and capacity needs to be in the toilet before they will step in.

Otherwise you will be one of the posters who is here time and time again with the latest 'issue'. I dont mean to be harsh but honestly whether you do everything parent wants or very little they still wont be satisfied.

Dont spend any time trying to negotiate. It will upset you and go way over their heads and they wont be listening anyway.

I honestly do know what you are going through but I had very firm boundaries and some people said I was too strict and rigid. Well - they could always pick up the slack couldnt they??

Yes - unfortunately when an elderly person makes dangerous and foolish decisions they can still be judged to have the capacity to make them - especially if it is assumed famlly are able to do much more than they actually are . Not because family members are unkind or uncaring but because they have caring duties elsewhere and cannot do everything everywhere all the time! I don't think this issue gets the attention it needs as the public debate is about how to get more care for the elderly whereas many of us just cannot get our elderly family members to accept any 'outside help' so matter how much it is needed.

They asked about DN who lives there but she works just like they do
The Government needs to make up its fucking mind If they want everyone at work then social care needs to step up. If they want family to care for the elderly then they have to accept not everyone will be able to work

I have to disagree somewhat regarding what the government role is in this.

They arent responsible for the elderly person refusing to fund care even though they can afford it and for funding the relative to do it. It would be chaos if they did with people claiming all sorts.

The issue here IMHO is that the elderly person is not taking responsible for their own health and well being. They want a member of the family to do it. To be run ragged. Preferably a daughter. These women including myself do it. We all have a reason for doing it whether that be guilt, feeling sorry for the parent or even bullied into it and not being able to have the courage to say no. In my case I was the only sibling in the UK. I either did something or washed my hands of it. Parent had capacity but some memory loss and massively anxious resulting in calls all the time or not wanting to manage their own issues. I had boundaries as I keep saying and tbh it didnt make me a very nice person all the time around parent. I was seen as bossy and rude on ocassion.

It is not for the government to resolve if the person has capacity. That person can make foolish, stupid decisions and its still their choice. It comes round in full circle to the elderly parent themselves. You see very little done by the sons? Why is that?

I think we need to take a cold hard look at what we are doing with our elderly people and also what they are doing to us. Keeping them alive at all costs and the hospitals are often the worst with this. Hopsitals arent good places for the very elderly. In fact they are bordering on mad houses. Constant screaming on the wards. Women trying to get out of bed with broken hips. Trying to climb over the guards on the bed resulting in falls from a further height.

DB has actually been run ragged because he is the one who drives
BREAKING................shes now asking about carers and has even mentioned a care home

Jennifer. Interesting. Carers would be a great start.

That's great news - try to follow up ASAP before she changes her mind !

Im on it. Busy this weekend though. Got to empty the hall cupboard so my HA (who threatened me with my tenancy agreement after my dad died despite agreeing with me initially to cancel the job due to bereavement ) so my fuse box can be changed so if there is a crisis i cant do anything about it. Contractor in my home on Monday and DH has to go out so i cant leave. Electric will be off for a few hours so i need to check that nothing goes wrong after job is completed
Best bit is the electrical check was January LAST year and it was them who dragged their heels till last autumn.

The State cant have me in two places at once If they want to treat me like this because i rent then i am unavailable for family care

After insisting she didnt want a commode this evening at 7pm i got a text from DB asking if i could sort one. Shes changed her mind I replied it will probably have to come from adult social care He said But she needs one now
Hes ordered one off Amazon but its not arriving until Saturday
We did try to get one from the same co. that did DHs mobility scooter but its after office hours.

I was away yesterday when i got a call from the community nurse, She couldnt get in to change DMs dressings. DM is housebound, Refused key safe, carers commode stairlift. Is now confined to a chair, DNiece lives there, works in a SEN school as a TA. DB was at work. Neither DB nor i have a key. So house was locked up Nurse was telling me that someone would have to come and let her in
Me...........i dont have a key
Her so your brother or niece will have to LEAVE WORK and come here
I told her that DN has a key but cant leave a classroom of children and just walk out of work
So she then said she could report this as a crisis but crisis team could only treat it as such if they were asked to come out straight away. I had to text my DN and ask her what time she would be home from work Nurse said DN could ring crisis team when she gets in So i texted her the number
Nurse also pointed out that a GP was due to come out to see Mum today. More of that later!
Now on Easter Monday I phoned the emergency adult social care line "sorry we cant do anything till tomorrow" Why couldnt they give me the number that the nurse gave me yesterday.
I also went to DMs surgery yesterday morning at 8am They never mentioned to me that DM had a GP coming over today.
UPDATE Crisis team didnt come till this morning and have ordered a frame (which DM already has) and a commode which is coming tomorrow One is coming from Amazon tomorrow the one that DB ordered when DM changed her mind about having a commode on Wednesday night at 6.30pm. Nurse said that wasnt quick enough.
She also changed her mind on a bank holiday about having carers so i rang ASC on Easter Monday and then Tuesday "we cant do anything until we have her permission and we need to hear it from her lips" DM is deaf and wont use a hearing aid.
Nurse said to me yesterday "your mum is in crisis" I told her it was partly a crisis of DMs own making because of her constant refusals of help and reminded her of the mental capacity law. Where people are allowed to make unwise decisions even if they are to their own detriment. Quite how this is the fault of relatives and how its our fault for not being able to circumnavigate this law i have yet to fathom.

And i would be really interested to know if that community nurse would be ablet just walk out of her job with no notice when called upon to!!!

Oh I hear you. A few weeks ago I was getting 2-3 calls a week from my mum's surgery as she hadn't turned up yet again for a dressing change and telling me that I needed to get her there. Every time I reminded them that her GP had only just assessed as having capacity to make her own medical decisions ( assessment prompted by the repeated missed appointments) and that as I don't live locally "popping her to the surgery" would take me 3 1/2 hours so it wasn't happening certainly not twice a week. In the end we got carers to take her but she then started phoning up and cancelling the appointments. Of course it was my fault the wound got infected.

I get so fed up with the LEAVE WORK thing. This week it was school ringing up about something inconsequential and could I just leave work and pop in?

Would the teacher or TA or nurse be able to do this? No!

It wasn’t a sick child or a discipline incident. Obviously I’d have gone for something like that, or DH would have gone.

Do they seriously think there are all these women sat at home with nothing else to do waiting to action calls from the school, GP, nurse, hospital?!

I haven't found anywhere other than this forum to discuss the challenges of a care refusing parent - I wasn't prepared for the level of denial and delusion my mother had about her failing health and did not know how to respond to it - also had a severely disabled child needing 24/7 care. I can only assume that if nurses are too young to be at that life stage then the idea of an elderly woman insisting on living in danger and vehemently refusing help sounds a bit far fetched to them ?

I would put in a key safe yourselves now and the very next crisis I’d insist she goes to hospital and say she’s not safe at home.
I think your DN should move out and your DB step back and let adult social services and her GP know that she lives alone and is at risk. Ask the District Nirse and GP to talk to her about having carers or going into a care home - having DN there complicates matters.