Refusing a Care Assessment - any advice?

[BlueLegume]

Hi lovely people. I will try and keep this brief. Mother has been referred to Adult Social Care. She is self neglecting - not showering, not dressing, not eating food provided, not taking medication. Adult Social services contacted her earlier this month but she has refused to let them do a care assessment and refused them permission to contact her GP surgery. The ASW was excellent in terms of saying she will do an unannounced visit BUT what then happens if mother refuses access to them. Any experience or advice on this stage of things would be appreciated.

Not if there are safeguarding concerns and local authorities must undertake an needs assessment under Section 11 of the Care act 2014 even if the person refuses. The local authority must try to work with the person and there are mechanisms such as risk management meetings where all professionals get together and look at risk management with the person wherever possibly.

The social worker should try to build up a relationship with mum and it does sound like there is evidence that your mum's capacity is doubted so they should look at doing a mental capacity assessment to see if she understands her circumstances and the risks she puts herself at. If she continues to refuse to engage at the last resort the local authority can go to Court of protection to look at any capacity issues and care.

Thank you though I always have respect for families who are trying their best, the strengths and resilience.

Update - and thanks to @Louisetopaz21 for the advice regarding legal side of things.

Visited my Dad this morning in his nursing facility. He’s not great but he is safe and well cared for. Our brother despises me using the word ‘safe’….I find it useful for my own well being. Any thoughts?

Anyway our mother lives close by and whilst I resist ‘popping in’ I felt compelled to this morning. An adult social worker was there having done a ‘no notice’ visit. I was introduced by my mother as ‘the one who wants me in a home or psychiatric unit because she thinks I am a nuisance’. Nice.

What was apparent as the lovely ASW spoke incredibly kindly to my mother is that actually our mother is incredibly sound of mind. She admitted she can shower but has chosen not to because ‘ I know it irritates Blue and it means I know she will ring me so at least I have someone to talk to’.

I live an hour away. Apparently she ‘assumed’ (lots of that going on) that once I retired I would move back to my home town as I ‘knew’ that I my parents would need caring for. Apparently ‘that’s what everyone does’.

Not got feedback from the ASW but I sat seeing a person of very sound mind, defiant that she is aging and hates it, defiant that her family should be stepping up and determined to make it clear she will not allow any outside help ‘that’s what family is for’. Quote.

I did explain calmly that nothing we do is deemed acceptable or right. My mother responded with ‘well if you spent more time with me you would know what I like’.

I dipped my toe into explaining she gets fixated on things - currently will only eat a certain brand of quite niche yogurt. Any other brands apparently make her ‘sick’. This is all about controlling us. I very diplomatically tried to explain this is how she operates in order to get her own way and always has done. Mothers response was ‘Blue likes to make out she has had a hard life when all I have ever done is try my best’….cut to little old lady big wide eyes gaze into the middle distance.

Goodness knows what we now do. ASW was very professional and lovely- said she would be in touch. I have left quite abit out as it could be quite identifiable.

Interestingly mother had made a pot of fresh coffee which was on the counter when I arrived. She tells me daily how much she misses nice coffee but ‘can’t’ Make it anymore. Tasted fine to me.

I am sat unsure as to how to feel really. Drove away with some relief she is not as bad as she makes out but royally annoyed she can operate normally when it suits. Control Blue at all costs is how it feels. She cannot ’control’ Dad anymore so her personality has to find something or someone else to fixate control on.

Another rant/vent but stops me hitting the 🍷-thanks all x

Thanks for the update, no words, only Gosh, that must have been an eye opener.

@Mindymomo truthfully not an eye opener really. Just exactly as she has always been -just with a sad little me demeanour for effect.

This sounds just like my dad; it's a way of trying to control you. We ( me & 2 sisters) were brought up with the expectation we would take on our parent's care when the time came. I did it for a while, until I couldn't, and my dad became nasty & abusive when I wouldn't do what he wanted. He never gave me a second thought unless he wanted something. I think about the situation every day, but I haven't heard from him since before Xmas, and I'm happier as a result. I've had to put boundaries in place for my own peace of mind. I hope you are able to as well.

@Dragonfly97 sympathy. 💐 Sadly even giving up everything like my husband and family and grandchildren to move and care or her would not ever be right. At my age my parents had taken early retirement and made it crystal clear they would do the minimum of any childcare as they ‘ had plans to travel’. good for them travel they did but they had zero responsibility for anything. I bounce between fear obligation and guilt, being buoyed to ‘leave her to it’ and utter desperation. I know all the theories around boundaries and am quite firm at imposing them. Then she moves the goal posts with a real corker to derail my resolve. Brother is so volatile he scares me. But Mum lived like that with the ‘threat’ that put the fear in me. I have texts and recordings of calls with my brother if his employer had them they would seriously compromise his very senior role. But I am too decent to do that as I see the running scared controlling narcissist he is. Just like our mother.

Oh @BlueLegume just wow! I don’t know what to say, but what a devious, manipulative woman she is. As you say, clearly no dementia going on there. She knows exactly what she is doing and as I said up thread, your brother is no doubt her flying monkey and very much enabling her devious behaviour. Worth looking up DARVO too, because he sounds like he’s employing this technique on you and your sister. If all three siblings were on the same page, I suspect she wouldn’t be able to carry on like this as she’d be out in the cold on her own.

It’s absolutely fine to use the word “safe” when referring to your father. You know he’s being well looked after and cared for, particularly when you’ve got more than enough dealing with your mother’s mind games. I know from my experience, once I got my mother into a care home, my own mental wellbeing improved as she was getting to a very unpredictable stage, deteriorating both physically and mentally and I could see we were heading rapidly towards the inevitable crisis point with her in her own home. Your brother probably doesn’t like “safe” because it means he can make no drama or mileage from the situation. Xx

@BlueLegume just wow 💐
I hope you can hold what you witnessed today in mind and shore up your boundaries. I totally get the yoghurt too! It must be the exact thing or it’s not good enough. And even when you present the prize of the exact thing, the focus is immediately switched to something you’ve not thought of / done.

@Dragonfly97 never gave me a second thought unless he wanted something. Resonates strongly with me, uncomfortably accurate description. I’m glad you have built your boundaries and found ways to cope. I’m finding my own and it is so helpful to come here and find I’m not alone.

Classic NPD. The yoghurt issue is an example of deliberately making things as awkward as possible for the person on the receiving end. If that particular brand isn’t that easy to get hold of, “It’s your fault” and victims of NPD automatically assume the guilt and responsibility of being unable to fulfil their wishes/demands. Whereas an individual with empathy would appreciate that someone had taken the time to try and get a particular brand, and if unsuccessful, had chosen a perfectly acceptable alternative

It looks like you won’t ever win with this one. She’s currently got her golden child in her son, because he tells her what she wants to hear and panders to her whims. If you and your sister withdraw, that mutual admiration won’t last long because she’ll have lost her target and ‘entertainment’ in you, so won’t be long before she turns on him.

Oh @BlueLegume every time I read one of your posts I see so much of my life in there.

You have every sympathy. The first time I flagged M to social care they went out and visited and told me what a delightful lady she was and what a hard life she has had.

Goodness knows what story she span but her life has been pretty blessed by all accounts. The only person who ever made it messy was her. I may have spat out the cup of tea I had been drinking when the ASW said that.

I am currently having to accept I cannot work full time, and be a parent to my still school age children plus take on a stroppy M who now needs round the clock care. My wider family hate me for it. But it will break me. I am so exhausted by it all.

Please look after yourself. I know for one I appreciate your updates, wisdom and understanding and I would hate for you to get dragged down by all this.

The gazing into the middle distance with a sadface thing... jeez, did they all get issued with the same instruction manual?!

Mine also relocated countries several times when my siblings were small and had their parents supporting, then inherited and went off on expensive holidays when my siblings had young kids and 2/3 of us were struggling a bit financially, and now we're getting towards the age they were when they started the expensive holidays we're meant to take time off work to help them out - I think you just sometimes get people who think it's always their go to receive from family but put very little into the pot themselves.

Is there any point speaking to her or your brother about her admission about the not showering or will she just deny it or twist it?

At least you've had confirmation of everything you've suspected, I'd take a lot of time and space while you figure out what to do about it.

These individuals are so clever at weaving a story and creating a persona to outsiders that is unrecognisable to those who truly know them.

Everyone always told me how lucky I was to have such a witty, generous and sparkling character as my mother. She could turn on the charm when she wanted something out of someone or their compliance, but could turn and spit like a snake if things didn’t go her way. She had gaslighting down to a fine art. The big eyes, the concerned expression and the incredulous comments that I was the one clearly deluded if I tried to confront her over things she’d said or done. She was entirely credible when she lied - which she did frequently - and was so convincing there were many occasions when I doubted my own sanity and recollection, but luckily my DH was often able to corroborate facts having witnessed the true version!

Stories were always twisted to put her in the heroine role and she definitely believed she had ‘special’ gifts and ‘superior intelligence’ which enabled her to understand others and therefore made her feel superior and entitled. She hated sharing the limelight with anyone, unless their achievements or success could be a reflection of her input. If anyone did better than her, it was never because they had genuine ability or worked hard, it was because they knew the right people and had an unfair advantage and was always downplayed by her.

These people are very, very complex and if we’re not careful can become a lead weight on our own mental health.

@HoraceGoesBonkers sadly I, and extended family, are unable to have a rational conversation with our brother. He is very volatile- charming personified when it suits. As mentioned before he does not value my or my sisters time as we are ‘not as busy as him’. Frankly, and this is going o sound mean. I think he and his wife have a chip on their shoulders that my sis and I were able to take early retirement when we did. Feel a bit mean saying that but every interaction with them they have to mention how ‘full on’ theirs jobs are. Apologies if that sounds mean.

@BlueLegume

He's his mother's son . The apple didn't fall far from the tree .