Elderly person visa's expired. Any experiences?

[Katherina198819]

My husband's father is from the US and has severe dementia. He moved in with us 2 years ago as he lost his house due to signing over to his other son, and none of the relatives in the US would take care of him.

We applied twice for elderly visas based on human rights, but it's been refused (not surprised. The chances are that getting it is extremely low). Until the applications have been processed, he could stay here legally.
Now he is 91, and his dementia is much worse. He doesn't remember anything, bearly speaking or eating and only awake 4 hours a day. He goes to the doctor's private (never used NHS and not planning on), and his pention insurance covers all emergencies if he ends up in the hospital. We take care of him at home.

Now the problem is: we could keep applying for the visa so he could stay here legally, but honestly, I don't see the point. It costs over 10 thousand a year (with all the legal fees included), and we know it will be declined.
When we asked the lawyer what will happen if he stays here inlegally he said: they propably can't deport him as he is in "end of life" shape- but of course, he is keep pushing to apply for the visa.
We talked to an elderly home, in case if he gets worse (his pention will be enough to cover the costs), and they said they would take him even without a visa.
When he arrived, he didn't have a retun ticket, so we thought it would be an issue, but no one had contacted us so far.

Any experiences?
He won't be a burden on NHS. We just want him here as he hasn't got anyone else. It's very sad, but there is no way he would survive a trip home, and he's got nowhere to go.
We will probably apply again for a visa (it's already in motion with the immigration lawyer), but I'm just curious about experiences and what will happen if we are contacted before the visa application?

@Katherina198819 there is no easy answer here. Not every situation has a straightforward answer and this is definitely one. I would be taking the ask for forgiveness not permission view. I think you tried the legal approach and it failed so sit tight and see what happens. So long as he isn’t coming into the eyeline of services it is very unlikely that red flags will be raised so just plod through until that no longer works for you by which time hopefully he will have lived out a comfortable happy life.

Oh OP I’m so sorry. The visa you’re looking at is near impossible to get (I believe one year only 8 were issued though thousands applied for).
In all honestly they won’t deport him.

Also if the visa is denied you should get your nhs surcharge back.

What a terrible situation. I’m so sorry.

Honestly, if the tables were reversed the USA government would deport British citizens too. He either needs a visa or to return to the USA. Can't you petition the USA courts for the proceeds of his house, you say he gave it away, was he of sound mind, was he coerced? It sounds like his other dc have really been terrible to him but it's not the U.K. taxpayer's job to pay, yes he's managing to pay privately currently but care for dementia patients is at least double what you have mentioned, it's not just basic care so often but 1:1 24/7, even 6 years ago in a similar area income wise (not se) bills hit £1500 a week with a further £400 surcharge for 1:1 for dgm in the cheapest place in the area, not a flashy modern one, thankfully the nhs paid in full.

I would be approaching your mp to see if there's compassionate exemption but also looking at legal remedies to get his money back as giving it away under British law is deprivation of assets, surely there's something similar in the USA, what would happen if he went back?

Are you sure this person renounced the British passport?

Why does the uk taxpayer would pay anything? The only thing he does is spend money here and not take it.
We can't fight his house back - his other son made him sign it over and sold it without us knowing. We contacted lawyers about it, and they all said he needed to stay in the US to fight it. First, we couldn't move back there as we have family here. Second, he was so traumatised and depressed after what happened. We didn't want to put him through the horrible process.

He has money saved up, and he has high pension and private insurance. He was happy to be here and had a social life when he came (he doesn't anymore as he's got worse).

There is no way he can go back. He simply wouldn't survive the flight. His private GP also said he won't survive going back.

We already contacted care home where he could go and be able to afford it. We also have a carer who will come every day to look after him from next month when I go back to work. If he needs to go to the hospital, his insurance will cover it.
He just wants to stay here with his son and his family and die in peace.

I see no reason why you’d keep risking raising their attention to his existence.

I don’t imagine he gets out and about much or is a heavy user of services etc

id quietly desist from visa stuff

and deal with it if it comes up.

although I have no idea what the issues will be with dealing with his death.

best of wishes to you

Thank you!
I am very surprised that we have never been contacted. He didn't have a return ticket, which should have been an issue when entering the country (I know it's an issue in the States).
But at the same time, he pays everything for himself and never uses public services. Make sense they won't care about him staying here - he spends money and not taking.

I used to work for immigration - albeit a number of years ago. It's unlikely we'd deport in this situation, although I agree a visa is unlikely as the case law is so very strict. I have seen similar cases granted though under Article 8. Have you appealed the refusal of the visas? Ideally you need to appeal to the appellate court and then to the tribunal. That's where you are more likely to be successful.

And please make sure you have e a reputable lawyer - so many immigration lawyers are downright criminals and do their clients no favours at all.

The quote he has been given is probably for a care home, what he will more likely need is a nursing home when the time comes, given his age and dementia. This is closer to £1,600 - £2,000 a week, depending on needs. If his pension covers £8K a month indefinitely that’s fine. But when the money runs out the local authority step in. This is where they would be very interested to hear about his other son stealing his house, it would be seen as deprevation of assets and there is no time cut off for this. However I don’t know what they would do about it being in the USA.
Also care homes have weekly visits by GP’s so they might require him to be registered with a GP.
I’m very sorry you are dealing with this, the poor man has been brutally betrayed by his son, but he is very lucky to have you both. There was a news story years ago about an elderly gentleman from the USA who was flown over here by his son and literally dumped on the street and abandoned. He was placed in a home here but ultimately sent back to the US and put in a miserable care home. I think some Americans assume the the NHS covers all care including elderly, sadly this is not the case.

Do you have the room for a live in carer for him?

I personally wouldn't bother with immigration lawyers.

I would apply for leave outside the rules quoting human rights legislation. Form is on the gov.uk website.

Make it clear that your FIL will not be a burden on the State or NHS.

When it gets refused, stick in an appeal to the immigration courts on form IAFT5 - can be done online and forms found on Google.

Or just leave him. They won't remove him or detain him.

Absolutely sure he did not have a British passport. Nobody looked at this elderly gent in rural Scotland and not bothering anyone.

Apparently a visa would be unhelpful if he needs the NHS, as undocumented people are to be treated ahead of others.
That's how crazy this country has become.

If he had "head memory issues" when the son took his house, maybe it's the US police who need to investigate, not a lawyer.

He's an illegal immigrant, brown, probably arrived on a boat and is a danger to women and girls everywhere. That is the only kind of immigrant MN seems to know exist.

Look, there is no point whatsoever depleting his and your financial resources on a visa application that won't be agreed. If he is concerned about it, tell him you've applied and just repeat the lie if he asks. It is disturbing him to think he's not got a visa, so don't tell him. At 91 and with dementia, it's a kind lie. Don't go to your MP right now - just leave it all and get on with your lives. If - and it is extremely unlikely - someone attempts to deport him, that is when you get the MP and news media involved. There's nothing more that they would like than a human interest story, and the powers that be will either back off and forget about him or grant him compassionate grounds. Nobody is deporting a 90+ year old with dementia - in fact I would lay bets they wouldn't even be able to find a carrier that would fly him!

I feel for you in this situation @Katherina198819 and I hope your FIL is comfortable.

I am inclined to agree with some of the others here though that the fees you’ve been quoted for the care home are unlikely to touch the sides. My DGM was in a care home for a few years, northern ‘working’ town so not at all swish. It was more than £800/week when she went in but as her dementia progressed she needed nursing level care (not just ‘care home’ level) and it soared to nearly £2,400/week. That went on for nearly 2 years before she eventually passed away there (in her late 90s).

OP if I were you I would get this thread deleted once you’ve read it. It won’t be long before there’s some ‘Mumsnet Vipers Aiding and Abetting Illegal Immigrants’ tosh appearing in the Daily Hate Mail.

I tend to agree to just let him live his life unworried. I think the chances of him being deported are zero, they can't even deport criminals most of the time. You could try talking to the citizens advice bureau and see if they have any suggestions. If you want to try again for a visa I would do it yourself no need to waste money, but I probably wouldn't bother.

@TroysMammy

We do. We are planning on keeping him at home as long as we can.
To be honest, he is very easy to look after. He isn't aggressive, paranoid, or anything else (I know from my own family experience how difficult dementia can be). Physical he is very healthy- appart from the sleepiness and lack of mobility recently.

Care home would be the last option.

Thank you for all the replies! I definitely need to look into the care home fees, I didn't know it would go up if he gets worse. I thought if the nursing care home is £800 than it would be the same amount regardless his health.

As far as the visa application goes, I agree with the comments here. There is no point in getting immigration lawyers involved as it won't help - I would rather keep that crazy amount of money for his care later on.
We will apply for a visa so he can be here legally - we can keep applying under "change circumstances"- which we have every 6 months based on his declined help.

This sounds extremely tricky 😬

My family member used to work in immigration law. He won't be removable because of his age/illnesses. But you also won't get a visa accepted. If he did end up using the nhs then he will be charged for it. Are you sure a care home would take him without legally being in the uk? Not sure how that aspect works. You could probably pay privately for carers though.

i have never heard of private ambulances taking patients as an emergency to a private A&E. Sadly had elderly relatives in care home and ambulances and emergency treatment all provided by NHS. So apologies if you can call am ambulance to arrive quickly to take to private A&E services in this country.

Care home one of my relatives was in which was a deprived area of North of country is £952 per week self funded and £1150 if have dementia. Know fees vary by area but there are annual rises as set by the home.

Surely if he did end up needing to use the NHS eg needing GP or nurse in a care home or an ambulance to A&E then the NHS would just bill him? As they do already where care for car accident victims is billed to the car insurance company or an overseas visitor who became ill on holiday is billed for A&E?

It is very difficult to renounce British citizenship.

UK citizens who renounce their UK citizenship on paper to a foreign country in order to acquire a second citizenship are deemed to have done so under duress. They may hand in their UK passport, but the UK government does not regard this as them losing their citizenship. A passport and citizenship are two different things.

The individual remains a British citizen. The UK government can not assist them in the country of their second citizenship, but there is nothing to stop them returning to UK and reapplying for a passport.

@EmotionalBlackmail A&E treatment isn't charged in my experience. When my (all) American niece broke a leg while on holiday here, she was treated for free - despite fessing up to being from the US and me supplying all her details. I specifically asked, and they said the treatment was free, as it was an emergency.

Ongoing non-acute medical treatment is probably different though.

Good luck OP. As I said earlier, he's lucky to have you and I wish him well.