Care home fees and what to do

[candlerhyme]

Dear Mumsnetters, I'm out of my depth and could do with some advice please.

My DM (87) and stepfather (90) have recently moved into a care home together. They had been living in LA sheltered housing (ie they have no house to sell).

I have POA for my DM. No one has POA for my SF, though he has a son.

The care homes fees are horrific, of course. My DM and SF have a joint bank account with £70k in it. The care home fees will rip through this in a few months.

I have 2 questions. Should I move my DM's half of the joint a/c into her own a/c? This would simplify things for me, but I'm not sure it would be allowed. I could easily see then when her money is nearly gone.

2nd question: my DM and SF are still paying rent on their LA flat. It seems clear to me neither of them will be going back to the flat (my SF was assaulting my DM, hence very hasty move to care home), however if they give up the flat and the money runs out they will have nowhere to go. DM's SW has kind of warned me not to do this, but it means the money will run out even quicker if I don't.

Could the authorities insist my DM moves in with me? Could they penalise me for giving notice on the flat?

So grateful to anyone who has read this far! I honestly don't know what to do for the best and I wish I hadn't taken on POA, as I assume the council are acting as POA for my SF which would have been a lot easier.

Any thoughts will be very gratefully received!

They cannot make you become a carer. If (when) funds run down to £23k each the LA becomes responsible for funding care - this can take a while to arrange, so with only £70k between them you need to apply now.

As PoA you have a duty to act in your DM's best interests. Neither moving back to an unsafe home, nor paying for an unused home, are in her best interests.

I don't see that there would be any limitations on you splitting the joint account equally so you can administer your SM's half.

That's so helpful @NoBinturongsHereMate. Thank you very much.

Follow the advice of your mums social worker, every LA has different processes so they will know what to do next. If this has all happened quickly then don’t make any quick decisions you may regret later

Just to clarify that £23k each so £46k if all in a joint account.

As NoBinturongs said, once you're below the level of savings set which is around 23K, you don't have to pay all the care costs, it starts tapering down. I think it's about 16K where you can then keep that amount and the local authority are called on to fund it. Bear in mind that they then get to assess what they think the person needs and make choices accordingly. So if your mum and stepdad are in a high end care home, in theory once the local authority take over paying, they could stipulate a move to a cheaper one.

I would ring or email the adult social services department of their local authority, explain the situation and request a care needs assessment and a financial assessment for them. Someone will need to give details of what their assets are. If you don't have POA for your stepdad then his son as next of kin will be looked to to sort things out for his father.

You can't be made to take anyone in, though. That always remains your decision, though don't be surprised if you get emotional pressure from social services staff - remember they're also under pressure to keep their costs down and the easiest route to that is getting family to do it, but there is no way to actually make you. Stand firm. It's a big responsibility and not to be taken on lightly.

I would give notice on their flat. It's money down the drain. If they've had to move to a care home, and are late 80s and 90, how likely is it they could return to living there? Did they have help carers already or were they independent? What was it that prompted them to move to the care home? Does either have major health conditions, disabilities or signs of dementia? The local authority will have to find them an alternative if they want them to move again. In the meantime, it's just depleting resources that they might need.

I'm not at this stage with my mum yet as she's still self funding, but I was advised by adult social care at the LA to get in touch with them when her savings are at about £30k so they can do the needs assessment before it reaches the savings threshold. In your case, I'd ask for it now, as you'll reach £60k really soon. The LA will then fund the care home places as long as that's the level of support they need

I agree with all of the above but would add a note of caution about giving up the tenancy without considering:

• is the tenancy in joint names? If it isn’t whose name is it in?
• if it is in your Mum’s name would she manage in Extra Care or an alternative flat with carers? Extra Care is like sheltered housing but with carers on site - if this would meet her needs there’s potential she could transfer from
her current property to a Local Authority Extra Care service or if she could manage to another sheltered flat where your SF doesn’t know where she is. You can ask the social worker.
• if it is joint names and your Mum could manage Extra Care or another flat with carers some local authorities will allow a victim
of DV to give notice on the tenancy but the regrant them a sole tenancy. The housing officer will know.

If your Mum needs a care home ignore all of the above and end the tenancy on the flat - it will end the tenancy for both of them.

I’m sorry you are having to manage all of this.

Thank you so much everyone. Both DM and SF have dementia, though my SF is much worse. His dementia is what led him to start hitting my DM, hence the hasty move to a care home.

They are in the same care home now, but have separate bedrooms. They both seem happy there so it would be nice if they could stay. I can't imagine there are any cheaper care homes in the area.

I think I will wait for my SF to be assessed for needs before quitting the flat, the tenancy of which is in both their names.

I will try and separate the joint account. Would be so much easier.

Really appreciate everyone's thoughts - thank you.

Apply for Attendance Allowance for both. It’s not means tested, and is about £100 a week. You can claim it only while they’re self funding. Once the LA step in, you cannot longer get it, but it might postpone it enough for them both be definitely at the level where LA consider a care home appropriate.

Don’t hang on to the flat too long. Not sure what the LA would think of wasting parents’ money on a flat they won’t move back into and then asking LA to pay for care.