Carehome,money running out!

[Confined61]

My MIL has been in a home for 3.5 years.We sold her house to pay for these years. That money will soon run out, so now we are looking to LA to pick it up.We have been told they will pay £900 @ week,But the current rate is £1600 @ week!.
We as a family do not have that shortfall in money.Has anyone experienced this recently , would welcome any advice.We were told by the home not to worry when the money runs out, we will acept the LA rate ...but now they are saying we can't do at that rate now.
She is 90yrs old and the thought of moving her will cause her so much stress.
So be warned people who have aging parents,this is a stressful situation you may well find yourselves in, when the sale of house money runs out.
I feel we have done everything right,buying selling her house and now we are been punished.
Would welcome any advise out there.Thanks

Start looking for a cheaper home (sadly) or see if the council will negotiate with you to up their payments. Also speak to the care home to see the lowest amount they would accept.

Can you think of any reasons why this particular care home is so suitable for her?
Such as it's all for people of particular religion with appropriate food, the staff know her and she has dementia so it would be detrimental to move her or something else? Her GP could say it would be highly detrimental to move her for example.

This may help to encourage the council to pay a bit more.

It's very tricky.

@Confined61 posting so you get some traffic as I see this stress in my future. I’d hope that LA would negotiate with home? I was a pedant when signing contract because I was being asked to sign as guarantor and there was a top up form I also refused to complete and sign. I’m LPoA and just using DFs funds so he can self fund.

Do you know what the contract said?

This is something I’m going to face next year so I’ll be interested to see what people with experience have to say.
My Mum went into a very lovely care home in 2021. I sold her house and she’s now down to just over £100,000. The care home fees have gone up to over £1800 a week now. There’s no way a local authority could (or should) cover that. When my mum went in she had had a terrible year and her mobility had gradually reduced to zero. I wanted her to be happy and the care home has been brilliant, she’s in far better shape now than 4 years ago. I find it so stressful if I think about what is going to happen. I don’t have the funds to continue to fund her care.

My Mum had a stroke this year, and went in to a care home a few weeks ago. She'll only be able to self fund for a small time, as my Dad still lives in their park home. The LA have said they'll continue payments when the money runs out, however, the home also told me the prices are going up next year so I'm just hoping they stick with their word.
My Dad also has dementia, and has mentioned he'd like to go in to the same home so we will sell the park home then, but the proceeds from that won't go far when paying for 2 of them. I can't fund any of it, so I worry what will happen as all homes around here are similar in price.

I think it is absolutely disgusting that they change £1,800 a week. I bet their profits are through the roof.

The home will negotiate with the LA.

If you can't afford to pay it you can't afford to pay it.

Both sides will say things that may or may not be true. I wouldn't believe everything you hear.

She will either stay if the negotiation is successful or have to move if it is not.

There is very little you can do about it.

I thought this before being involved in a relative moving into a care home. Now she is unable to walk or stand up unassisted. They do absolutely everything for her - clothing toileting cleaning feeding spending one on one time with her arranging all medical appointments and dealing with medication and other health needs. I have ended up thinking it is actually good value.

We are also dealing with the funding request at the moment and the carehome has said they will only request what the council will pay. I hope to god they don't change their mind because I don't want to move to a cheaper home because we discarded all those before finding the current one

I'm so sorry to hear the experience you're having - unfortunately this is exactly why people in the social care sector have been shouting more and more urgently for years that there is a serious problem in this sector.

In 2022, Care England posted to say that the average difference between whaf a Council paid for a residential care place and what it cost to deliver was £218. So that was about £900 loss to the care provider every month for a single Council place. And that was before the inflation pressures - and now care providers are facing the double whammy of increased minimum wage and national insurance next year.

Right now Councils can't pay more as they don't have it - but care providers simply can't go on absorbing these losses through charging self-funders more and more. It's just unsustainable and care providers are already starting to hand contracts back to Councils, saying they simply cannot deliver them. It's a perfect storm, and means that vulnerable people and relatives dealing with crisis situations are being left stuck in the middle. I'm so sorry.

It’s awful. I don’t know the answer but prices are going up and the funding is not.

It’s a lot but it breaks down to £10.71 per hour. That’s not even minimum wage for one carer let alone paying for food, electric, accommodation, laundry, etc. etc.

Sit tight. Speak to the home about their experience with the LA picking up the shortfall. I was in the same position this year, was so worried, especially as my LA is bankrupt. The home told me they'd never had anyone had to move, and Lo and behold the LA did pick up the shortfall. Good luck, I know what a stressful time this is.

Speak to Age Concern. They are utterly invaluable in their knowledge of such things. It is a minefield to navigate but they will help.

Does your MIL have any pension income that could be used?

We have used all but £20,000 of my mams money to pay for her care. We’ve used about £250,000 and there’s only that amount left. Now all her pensions go towards the monthly fee and the lical council make up the rest. You don’t have to use your own money. You haven’t got it. You can’t pay but the care home also can’t just chuck your mam out. They have a duty of care.

Personally I am very pro the idea that care homes should be state controlled- so as to control the costs- At the moment if they said they would make them £3k a week -there are people who aren't in a position to do anything about it if they still have assets. (although in reality unless you do compulsory purchase I'm not sure how that could happen- ) I think there should be a cap on assets taken of £85k and we should all pay a ringenced NI premium of £50 a month for social care- this could then cover both care home fees ( once the£85k of assets if available were used) or any care 'at home' if more appropriate.

I don't think care or quality of care or surroundings should be based on wealth but on need and it should essentially be a 'not for profit' sector.

There would be more than enough I feel under a system
Like this to cover off those who need longer term care balanced by those who need next to none or only for a short term - because the interest on huge funds would add a lot to the balance.

It would also take the funds needed out of the realm for local authorities , freeing up more cash for the LA to spend on other much needed services -

If she has a pension that can go towards the shortfall. Does she get state pension?

Thanks for all your comments,it has been very useful. She has got a pension and we will use that towards the payment..But someone told me that the LA will take that towards the payment,therefore that will reduce the LA contribution!!
So so stressful.

That's right - they say they are funding but what they mean is they will top it up to eg£900 a week after taking into account income of the resident

I went through this last year when my mother's money ran out after being in her care home for several years as a self funder. My fear was that the LA would want to move her.

It was really stressful but it worked out absolutely fine. The LA rate was £500 pw less than the care home's rate, so the LA asked if I would pay a top up between the two figures. I said no. The LA then agreed it was in her best interests to stay in her care home, and paid the full amount (obviously she contributes her pensions).

You do not need to look for a cheaper care home, and you do not need to enter into any negotiations. If the LA want a cheaper home, they need to find it. And all financial negotiations are done between the LA and care home. All you have to do is fill in the forms for the financial assessment. Don't leave it too late, my mother's financial assessment took 3 months and the care home told me that is quick. It can take six months.

Have you asked the LA if she can stay, lots of people don’t have to move homes?

Nope. They charge self funders more to cover the shortfall of council funded residents. If you are a self funder, you are also subsidising someone else who doesn't pay for themselves. I am always surprised that more people don't know this.

I would definitely contact Age UK to talk it through. The law is complex around this and it’s arguable that LA blanket policies that say they will only pay x can be challenged in some cases but it is very complicated

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/