Nursing home near family

[user1478112490]

Sorry this is a long one- My mother in law lives in London in a council flat. She is currently in hospital and has to now move to a nursing home. All of her family live in Hertfordshire and we have asked that the home be near us and the hospital have also confirmed that this would be better for mum as she can have regular visitors.
However, her local council are have said the nursing homes near us are too expensive and she cannot move to one unless the family pay £1300 per month in top up fees. We cannot afford this. She would pay approx £250 per week from her two pensions -she has very little savings. Their solution is that she moves to a nursing home in London which the council can afford (I assume the rooms are cheaper because the council have brokered a good deal with them due to the number of clients they send their way). Ironically she used to work for the council in question as a carer and this is where one of her pensions is from. My question is has anyone experienced this scenario and managed to successfully challenge the council and persuade them that they need to increase their contribution towards a suitable, affordable nursing home in the area that the patient and their family want even if that is in another part of the country?

I haven't unfortunately. I've only heard of patients being placed put of London to where we are in the Midlands.

Have you research what the price differences are yourself for the places that have vacancies?

Is it a permanent move too or is she receiving a few funded weeks?

You need to look for a cheaper home near you. The chains tend to be far more expensive than independent in my experience, and you need to look beyond the decor, often the newer ones will look better but the care is no different if not worse. The council will not pay more than the normal rate they pay

Agree with not being bothered by the decor we have one nearby with extremely caring staff. I'd recommend it to anyone but it's shabby. The other closest care home's weekly rate is double but the staff turnover is greater, the staff are younger and less experienced and the reports I've heard say that there aren't any regular activities and the residents feel isolated.

Councils simply do not have the money in their coffers to do this. If they can provide for her, why would they spend an extra £15,000 a year? The only people I know who've moved area for a care home have been self funded. In my mum's case she moved while self funding, but when her money ran out, the new council took over.

I assume that your mum doesn't have a property that can be sold?

I'm afraid that if your mum isn't self-funding, you're not going to have the options, in the present local government financial situation.

The only people I know who've moved area for a care home have been self funded.

Like I said before it's common practice for people to be placed in Care Homes around here from London. Don't know about Nursing Homes though.

Is your geography that bad. We've both said which areas we live in and they're nowhere near one another

The problem is the council won't fund something that would simply be for your convenience. Yes she would have more visitors if she lived closer, but the priority is simply her care needs. Visits are not part of that. I think if you can't fund it you can't have it.

Thanks for the advice. My dad was in a nursing home as a self funder so I am ok with knowing what to look for re care. We have suggested the cheapest nursing home to the council and it is still the £1300 per month shortfall. As it is a nursing home that she needs the choice is more limited. Other ones would be even more expensive. Government statutory care guidelines say that location nearer to family is a consideration and also her consultant has recommended this. Age UK have also said it should be taken into consideration . I worked in local government for over 30 years and am aware of the financial constraints that they work under but if is difficult when it is so personal. I was just hoping that someone may have experienced the same problem and could advise me on what happened. I will update this thread when I have a resolution in case it may be useful for someone in the future.
Thanks again.

@user1478112490 in your original post you said ‘has to move to a nursing home’. If this is a decision made by the hospital not the family is there a chance you could enquire about continuing health care (CHC)?

https://www.hertsandwestessex.ics.nhs.uk/your-health-and-care/funding-your-care/continuing-healthcare-adults/

How many DC does MIL have? Is it feasible that they could split the additional £1,300 per month as a 3rd party top up?

Another alternative is that you could work out what the family can afford to top up each month and approach your mum's LA with that offer.

When my family was looking for a nursing home for my DM, we looked in Hertfordshire because it was near my sister. The prices were eye watering - around £2000/week in some cases. She's now in a home in London which is cheaper, but equally as good and the council pays (she's run out of money now).

Councils are absolutely on their knees financially. I think you'll struggle to get them to pay more than they are willing for your mums care.

She has been assessed for CHC but does not qualify- it is extremely hard to get it. She does qualify for Funded Nursing Care which is £235 per week but it still the £1300 per month shortfall even with this. She only has one child (my husband) so it is all down to us. I assumed that care homes in Hertfordshire would be cheaper than ones in central London but it seems I was wrong. We can afford to pay possibly up to £500 but I doubt this will be enough.

@user1478112490 oh that’s tricky. Does she have a social worker you could talk to?

I will update this thread when I have a resolution in case it may be useful for someone in the future.

That's a lovely thing to do.

She does have a social worker but she only deals with organising the discharge. The council brokerage team deal with the fees issue and there does not appear to be anyone who deals with the whole issue. Yesterday the brokerage team told me that all was ok and she could move to near us and there was no top up to pay but 2 hours later they changed their mind as the manager in the brokerage team said it was too expensive and he would not sign off on it. During that 2 hours the ward manager was looking at arranging the transfer for today but it all fell apart. They then said it would be ok as mums contribution from her pensions would cover the costs plus with what the council would pay but then changed their mind about an hour later to say that mums contribution was already included in the figure that the council will pay. I cried on the ward-it's so flipping stressful! As an ex council employee I'm pretty sure I would have been hauled over the coals for this complete mismanagement.

I assumed that care homes in Hertfordshire would be cheaper than ones in central London but it seems I was wrong.

I'm really surprised at this too OP!
I think although guidelines say proximity to family should be taken into account at the moment finances are ruling everything and there's no way way councils are going to pay that much more a week when they don't have to if the family is within "reasonable" travelling distance. If you lived 300 miles away you may have a bit more of a case

I had a relatively with Alzheimer's who we managed to get transferred to a specific home on the grounds that it was clinically necessary to prevent a fast deterioration. It took a pointed letter from the consultant and the intervention of her MP but it worked. You say that her consultant supports a home near you. Is this for general reasons or is there some specific clinical reason you can use?Admittedly this was some time ago now but it might be worth exploring.

Thank you for this information. I am going to try to speak to her consultant today to see if he can help at all. I have also asked to see her care needs assessment to see what that says -they have been reluctant to provide this but Age Uk says we can see it-we have POA .

UPDATE! After more emails to as many relevant senior staff as I could find on the structure chart for the Council, , phone calls, our references to the Care and Support Government Statutory Guidance re : choice of home and the Consultant offering to write a supporting letter the Council have now said they will pay for a home in Hertfordshire and mum maybe transferring there tomorrow! It isn't the 'best' nursing home in the area but it is a good one with good care levels. If anyone else is in this situation I really recommend speaking to Independent Age who will then refer you to Care Concierge at Legal and General-they gave excellent advice and provided supporting information. Hopefully we will sleep better tonight!

Excellent news, well done!

@user1478112490 brilliant news. There is a system in place and you have clearly navigated it brilliantly. It really irks me when people say negative things about care etc. Yes it is messy BUT the staff in the system are for the most part amazing. The ‘best’ homes may look great but in my experience what looks great doesn’t always offer the best care. So pleased you have had some success.

Great news!! Well done x