How to get MIL assessed for dementia without her knowing?

[Whatthewhatnowreally]

She’s always been difficult but now really difficult.shes fairly ok one minute then shrieking she’s going to disown her kids and sue her husband. Really spiteful then she’ll call me and cry that they think she’s awful.
her husband put half his money in accounts in her name , now he needs that money to buy a house near us and sell his home. Her name is on the deeds too. She is refusing, and not understanding that it will save her money in tax.
he is so very sad - 50 years of marriage and his hard work gave her the savings. Now she thinks she is running ibm and won’t help. Which leaves us and him, stuck .
help! Can we get her assessed for dementia without her knowing? She can be charming when she wants to be and obviously if she knew she’d act charming and be super nasty to us.
help!

Has she made a lasting POA?

If not, and she is found to lack capacity, then nothing can be done until someone is established as deputy via the Court of Protection.

Why do you think she may have lost capacity? (As opposed to just being a belligerent so-and-so who does not agree with her DH's plans to move)

There are 2 issues here - the first is to determine if your MIL has dementia. Her DH can speak to the GP for advice on this. The second is the concern over her DH wanting to make financial decisions without her agreement, which could be seen as financial control. Any savings he has are joint savings if they’re married so of course half should be in her name or they should all be in joint names. Why does he want to sell their home and how would that leave you stuck?

And if she doesn't lack capacity, you can't exactly trick her into it. It's a hugely difficult dilemma but at the end of the day, you can't act unless you have POA and even then it's not an easy process. Capacity is a complex thing. She may have capacity to choose where she lives but not regarding managing her finances or vice-versa. So it's task-specific. It's time specific too which makes it hard in cases of fluctuating capacity. It's a skilled appraisal and social workers, as one group of professionals who do this, are trained in it. Even then, it's not an easy task often. The appraisal needs to be able to stand up in a Court of Law, as your mum might appeal an assessment in which she is appraised as lacking capacity to do x/y/z.

He is selling his house to move near you. Where does she live - in thr same house or elsewhere? Will she be moving? How will it save her tax?

Could be dementia, or could it be another mental health issue..? Try to get POA if you can , it has to be done whilst she still has capacity

I'm confused by the story. Her husband wants to sell the house but she doesn't want to? Are they together? Maybe it's stress rather than dementia as the situation sounds odd.

Half "his" money has been put in her account? He wants to sell "his" home? They've been married 50 years. Has she actually got dementia or is she resisting financial abuse and coercion and this is inconvenient to all of you?

Their house as she is on the deeds? He needs money? Save her tax how? MIL going to live in the next house he/they? want to buy or?
I understand why she is confused.

No, you will have to be honest about an assesment for dementia. She might not understand it if she suffers from dementia but you can't lie to people. Talk to her GP - with her.

Do you mean that nothing can be done in terms getting a diagnosis?
Even OP’s MIL was deemed to lack capacity, POA in place or not, she can’t be forced to attend health appointments.

Lacking capacity does not take away the rights of a person. People can’t be coerced into anything they do not want.

I don't get the bit about the money... he moved half his money into her account and now he wants to sell his house and buy a new one... surely it's their money after 50+ years? And why isn't she getting input into this decision?

Does she really have dementia, or do her family just want to control her& her money? Because that's what it sounds like.

Cross Post - you type faster than I do@Fargo79!
It all sounds highly suspicious 🤔

How can you get her assessed without her knowledge - she'd have to be there!

Also, having dementia doesn't mean you don't have capacity. It's a bit of a fluid thing.

I don't think you are going to be able to go ahead with this without her agreement so I'd be thinking of a Plan B if i were you.

Your MIL doesn’t need a diagnosis of dementia to have a capacity assessment in respect of finances. But she will need to be asked if she consents to both a referral to someone who can support with this process, likely a social worker, and also to consent to the assessment.

If she is deemed to lack capacity, this doesn’t give her husband or family members access to her bank accounts. Husband would need to apply to the court of protection for court appointed deputyship.

her husband put half his money in accounts in her name

Why?

What is it you are you hoping to achieve from a dementia diagnosis that you can’t do without one?
From your post it would seem it is POA that you need;
but if she is lacking capacity it’s too late to arrange it.
You can request a needs assessment but again she will have to agree to it.

She is refusing, and not understanding that it will save her money in tax.

Maybe she understands fully and is refusing because she doesn't want this.

Nothing in your post sounds like dementia tbh

This doesn’t sound like dementia. It sounds like you and her husband want to sell the house from under her and she isn’t agreeing. You can’t get someone diagnosed with dementia because they aren’t doing what you want.

Also agree you’re going to struggle.

im an elderly nurse and as a pp pointed out, dementia doesn’t mean someone lacks capacity. It also doesn’t sound like it but none of us can be sure but you said in op that she’s always been like this.

Mental capacity is decision specific and not a wider term of just saying someone doesn’t have capacity. In this sense, if she understands keeping the money there could lead to more tax but is happy with that, has weighed up the idea of that vs what the husband is suggesting and can still communicate her decision, she’d likely be deemed to have capacity. If the money is on her name, there’s not a lot that can be done, as on paper, it’s hers

I didn't mean that.

I meant that if she had been diagnosed, and if that meant she did not have capacity to state where she wanted to live, and if there was no POA, then nothing can be done in terms of running her affairs for her until the Court of Protection has approved a Deputy for her. Which is (rightly) a stringent process, which requires lots of form filling and regular checks, and can take a long time. It's not a case of getting a diagnosis and then the DH taking over quickly and seamlessly.

(If you really think someone is incapable of making proper decisions on their health, then it does get awkward, as they may not be able to realise that they need support/intervention. And it can be difficult to get help until the person is clearly a danger to themself/utterly incapable of day to day life).

I'm not at all sure from what it says in the OP that there is any loss of capacity here. People can make tax-inefficient decisions, and to dig their heels in and refuse to move house simply because they don't want to.

Sorry if misunderstood the meaning of your post. I’m well aware of the processes for MCA and court of protection, I work in this arena.

I agree regarding the loss of capacity re the OP’s MIL.