Where the f**k to start with this?

[WhatColourIsThatBalloon]

So parents 70 (M) poor mental health and 69 (D) dementia. Live two hours away. Diagnosed Dad last year with dementia. Refused to take the medicine, despite me, health professional etc. say you should. And surprise surprise its gone down hill this year...

Hes taking dementia meds now but his anxiety (which has always been there, he was a nightmare to live with growing up) is massive now and he's making my mum's life a misery. She's always had a history of mental illness (my childhood was such fun!) and is back on antidepressants now. Every time I've seen or spoken to them over the past six months it feels like the situation is becoming more and more untenable. They had started with a carer but then he cancelled its, said he didn't need it.

He gets constantly stressed out about money - they have lots, its fine - and will go on rants about it x1000 a day. I'm genuinely worried she might snap during one of his many rants and hit him or worse. I've spoke to his nurse this morning and had a long conversation - basically he needs strong anti-anxiety medication, time to let a new dementia drug he is on take effect plus going to a day care center so my mum gets some respite.

Me and my sister have lasting power of attorney. Do we need to start having all of their banking correspondence forwarded to us? I don't want to take away their agency... They can manage day to day, its just the anxiety and mental health that is making things particularly hard. Can we force them to start making use of careers and day centres? The nurse told me that they will prescribe a higher does of anti-anxiety medication on their next visit...

Just feeling a bit overwhelmed with things and don't quite know where to start making interventions to help.

@WhatColourIsThatBalloon sending sympathy. Lots of wise and experienced people on here - hang in there and do take on some of the advice you will be given on here. Lots of lived experience.

You can book carers but if he repeatedly refuses to let them in they will cancel the contract.

Ditto with day care - you may be able to find him a place but if he won't go you are not in a position to make him.

You need to work in persuading him, if possible. With some people it is not possible.

This unfortunately.

We were in this situation with my granda. He desperately needed carers help in his home as my gran couldn’t do it all due to her own health but he refused to let them in, when they got a key he sent them away every time and told them they weren’t needed so eventually the contract was cancelled.

We had a place for him in a day unit and had funding for transport to take him there and back, he refused to go, wouldn’t get in the car and on the occasion my mum took him in her car he refused to go in, nothing they can do about that, so he never went.

Eventually he was placed in a nursing home as his Alzheimer’s became too advanced to cope with at home, but that interim period where everybody but him could see that he (and my gran) desperately needed help was incredibly difficult and I’m sorry you are going through the same OP.

Oh gosh! I really feel for you and am in a very similar situation. My father (90) is totally composes mantis but due to natural old age cognitive decline and my abusive mother constantly undermining him he has lost a lot of confidence in himself. My mother (83) has always suffered from anxiety which is now significantly worse. She accepts this but refuses to take any medication for it. She has a problem with alcohol and very likely early dementia. She has always been cold, critical and judgemental but it's on another level now and add in the aggression. It is basically a cohesive controlling relationship where she makes all the decisions even though she is less capable.

She has consistently turned down any assistance from health services including falls alarms despite both of them suffering having fallen this year. There have been numerous referrals to occupational health but as my mother declines them there's little they can do.

We do have LPA and consequently have access to their medical records which is helpful from the point of view that medical professionals will discuss their medical issues with us and we can give a true picture of what is going on as my mother often lies and my Dad is too scared to contradict her. My sister also has access to their bank accounts although in our case this has been authorised by my Dad. You could ask for access to him maybe although if you have LPA I think you can apply directly the banks in any instance. If they are getting paper accounts I think you could ask for a copy to go to you so your parents still feel like they're in control but you know what is actually going on?

The main problem we have in moving forward is that they are both deemed to have capacity so if they refuse anything there is little that can be done.

Sorry. Probably not very helpful but you're not alone.

Re the carrots - many folk with dementia find change difficult and hate strangers coming into their homes. If you can see if you can persuadé them to have a regular cleaner come in to help who might gradually offer to take on extra household duties. It's a lot less threatening to them. You can employ a career as a "cleaner" who can befriend and support them.

Re the bank correspondence, you support them, rather than take away agency. So chat to them about what a nuisance all that filing etc is and remind them that the forms they signed mean that you are allowed to help out. Would they like you to take over that now?

Ditto day centres. They have to be on board with it, so chat to them, take them along for lunch to see if they enjoy it.

Do you have POA health and welfare as well as property and finance?

Hope that helps. It will be hard for you supporting from a distance. I managed from 2 hours away for 8 years or so, but did a lot of travelling back and forth, and only worked part time. I also had a fabulous career who supported them amazingly - started off for two hours a week and ended up living with them.

Lol. Carers not carrots!?! Autocorrect!

@Notquitegrownup2 ha ha all I can now see is Kevin the Carrot from the Aldi ad. Joking apart it’s such a minefield

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.

The situation between them has never been ideal really. I've felt since my pre-teens that their marriage was horrible and they should split. Tried my damnedest not to fall into the same patterns in my own relationships. Break the cycle and all that. But for better or worse, they've endured over the years but the bad times just seems increasingly horrible now.

I'm going to look into day centres for my dad, push the idea of carers (or cleaners) again... I think he would be open to going to one and they would both be open to a cleaners. Its getting them to stick with it over time. What @Notquitegrownup2 said resonated - change is horrible particularly if you have dementia and no one wants strangers coming into their home.

I guess over time it will be more and more interventions.

This sounds so hard @CountTo10 and yes a lot of it sounds familiar.

If you don't mind me asking how are you coping personally with all of that? How do you balance it with the rest of your no doubt busy life?

My parents arn't even that old really but I can see this just going on and on for years. And as I said I don't live super close, I work full time, have a young child - its really bloody hard!!!

When I registered my LPA with my mother's bank they asked if I still wanted her to have access. I said yes, for the time being. I could then monitor the account via internet banking and ensure bills were paid (and also pay for carers), and my mother could still withdraw money for shopping but didn't have to do anything complicated. I also got the paper statements sent to me.

I think the earlier stages are the worst because they tend to be chaotic - they still want to 'be in charge' and refuse help, and you haven't yet got a handle on it and a lot of things slip through the net. My mother was diagnosed ten years ago and it has been far easier since she moved to a care home (she's now in the very late stages of the disease).

My parents arn't even that old really They really are not old! I’m older than both and DH is in his 80s. So sorry for them with health failing so young, and for you having to deal with it so young.

Elderly parents with existing mental problems are the absolute pits. You're dealing with the long term madness as well as the new stuff and none of the authorities really get it half the time. My sister and I are in a similar situation and my god it's hard. Good luck. We could almost do with a thread on loony oldies

@WhatColourIsThatBalloon

In my case it's me and my sister managing the situation. For some reason (thankfully) it's my sister who gets most of the messaging although unclear why. They do think I live a long away away although we both live pretty much the same distance except I'm in a different county. Plus my sister allows herself to get a lot more embroiled in the situation than I do. I have said sometimes they need to be left to sink or swim because if we're propping them up all the time they will never accept that they need outside help.

I think having strong very strong boundaries helps otherwise you just get taken for granted. I have been known on occasion to block my mother on the phone when she starts sending nasty messages. Unfortunately my Dad then gets involved, not knowing the full story and I get told how upset Mum is because I've blocked her so I have to tell him exactly why. As he is a lot more reasonable it then usually goes quite and I unblock her and we go back to normal.

Despite the fact both me and my sister live some 45 mins away and have full time jobs and commitments she will offer to take them to hospital appointments when I tell her they can get a taxi if required. When she went on holiday they managed perfectly well with taxis getting to medical appointments I was unaware of but as soon as she comes back they become helpless again. My Dad does drive (another story in itself) but only very locally and doesn't like driving to a hospital 15 mins away but as I said he has taken a taxi there when my sister was on holiday so is perfectly capable of doing so.

My sister did ask the occupational nurse how to mange the emotional toll especially when my Mum is being aggressive and difficult and her advice was to deflect and talk about something else. However I do struggle to do that and at times have had to walk out because there's only so much abuse you can take and I know I'll flip and come out with some home truth which wouldn't be good for anyone. If this abusive person was a friend or partner you'd walk out and never have anything to do with them again but because it's your parent some how you're expect to put up with it. If it was jsut my mother I probably would have nothing further to do with her but but because of my Dad I do feel I need to be there to try and support him although he can also undermine your assistance and often takes her side even though she's in the wrong.

Overall it does help to have my sister who does totally understand the situation and we can off load to each other. The nurses involved have been really good too and are always there for advice and an off load if needed. Unless you live it you just can't.