Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

@Lexy70 goodness some people are just awful. I can sympathise with the throw away comment about ‘taking a pill’ together. We had this for years or another favourite of our mothers ‘ I nearly walked into the sea’ or ‘under a bus’. When we protested we were told ‘it’s just a turn of phrase’….errrr no it isn’t it’s a reference to suicide which is never to be taken lightly. Apparently I’m too literal and sensitive to understand it’s a turn of phrase. When the grandchildren were growing up and expressed their potential careers she always had an opinion saying things like ‘you’re too clever to do that why not do x?’ Usually high status careers not because she really thought about them she wanted the ability to talk up her grandchildren. She has zero interest in the careers mine have but she used to always drop the names of the companies they work for into conversations. Like ‘ooh look at me and how well MY grandchildren have done - they take after me brain wise thank goodness they didn’t take after BlueLegume’.

This in buckets loads.

So many threats and references to suicide and likewise talking of pills and overdoses.
My DH had the opportunity of a job overseas. Europe, so not the other side of the world. Her first comment was, “Well, I might as well throw myself in front of a train”! No interest in potential opportunities for us or the fact she was fit and able enough to visit. It was all about the impact of me not being there would have on her.

My career was always ‘just a job’ A man’s career was always more important apparently. I was actively discouraged from any further education and she considered university was only for women to meet their future husbands. I got sick of having to tell her what my daughter’s degree was in because she couldn’t be bothered to remember. It was in English, so hardly difficult to recall. My daughter became a teacher and my son, an airline pilot. But it was always his job that was always dropped into conversations with strangers.

And again, any success the grandchildren have was always down to ‘her good genes’ despite her not being in the least bit interested in their academic years and the work they put in themselves to study and qualify.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas threats threats threats. My understanding is our mother always used these threats from being a young child (her siblings have told me this) I order to get her own way. Sadly her parents pandered to her so my Dad had to do the same. I’ve come to realise she has never really spoken in normal conversations. Always hyperbolic language. A bad school report would result in ‘I can’t eat/sleep/think’. All about her. I’m currently in a battle with her as she refuses to supply our Dad with clothes/toiletries for the home he is in. I’m supplying them but she keeps telling me they’ve gone missing. They have not. The staff are brilliant they take a photo of what he has and when stocks run down they know to ask me for a top up. I won’t stop supplying him but she’s now rubbishing me as being stupid and essentially accusing staff of getting me to send stuff and that they are then stealing it. She did this when he was in hospital.

My parents were fine, so it was a shock to me to get to school and find other kids didn’t like me. There’s so many ways a child can be fucked up, and some of them are nothing to do with parents.

I get sad looking at my mum’s photos - 7 years old, bright, happy, confident, ready to face the world. Then as I knew her, always feeling out of place.

Fungus trip was great! Sunshine, DH, friends I know well, people I hardly know - a good mix.

Jobs: I had quite an unusual job in my 30s which parents used as a boastful point of pride but tempered with 'but we prefer' or ' it's not our kind of thing'

I moved to something else, was rebuilding, was about to go on a long term project overseas when my mum sent me a letter, timed to arrive 24 hours before I left about how awful I was, how I didn't emotionally connect like a real mother would feel eg. like her. I ignored it and then welcomed COVID. Info diet for them after that.

A few years later, went to see my dad in hospital, stupidly, stuck for something to say, showed him some photos of a work project.
He just looked at me, quite nastily, and said 'how did you get that job'. He said it in the same way he said 'you'll have to do better in your A-levels' after a straight run of As&Bs. It was insecurity, mixed with taking down a peg or two, knowing your place, etc etc.

I take a huge amount of pleasure parenting differently and I'm looking forward to my mum finally, as she often mentioned ' sticking her head in the oven'.

Lots of waxcaps! 14 species at least, in white, yellow, orange, red, brown, grey and green. Liberty caps, petticoat mottlegill, dung rouhdheads, an incredible abundance of golden spindles, also meadow coral, and the one that lives on buried caterpillars. We weren’t searching to eat!

They think being a nurse is the lowest of low. Maybe they remember when you could be a State Enrolled Nurse with a couple of CSEs. My cousin worked really hard to get 5 O-levels, to be a State Registered Nurse, we were so proud.

Yes when I met my DH I was astounded that somebody could like and love me because I was so flawed and difficult. Ditto. Because of school not parents. Still feel I need to give something to a friendship over and above just me. Because why would anyone like me just for myself?

Apparently I’m too literal and sensitive to understand it’s a turn of phrase. It’s a turn of phrase deliberately chosen to have an effect on you. If you weren’t shocked and upset, there’d be no point in saying it. I think it’s a way of trying to express how upset she is, but it’s counterproductive. Much more productive to take most things in your stride so that when you really need help/sympathy people believe you AND are ready to help, because they haven’t already been beaten into the ground with all your other complaints.

@MereDintofPandiculation decided a little pamper is in order tonight. Got lots of lovely smellies I don’t use enough. Then I am going down the funghi rabbit hole on google. What a fab thing to do in Autumn whilst painting my nails….shock horror - my mother would be disgusted.

@MereDintofPandiculation unfortunately you are giving my parents the benefit of doubt. She knew fine well I wasn't an EN because I did my first degree in biology and was reminded frequently how I'd wasted my degree on being a nurse.

I know you try to post alternative ways of thinking about our elderly parents. However for myself, @BlueLegume, @HoraceGoesBonkers @Septoctwed these mothers have been problematic and difficult all their lives.

No conversation, phonecall, request lacks an ulterior motive and an opportunity to cause chaos and be nasty. Everything with them has a sick agenda, it is like the game nobody wants to play.

Of course I understand that abusive parents aren't the only thing that can mess you up. It sounds from what you have written, that you have a loving,supportive and mutually respectful relationship with your dad.

For most of the posters, forgive me if I am wrong, we are posting to vent and receive support from other daughters who are in the impossible situation of trying to help their elderly parents. The same parents that messed us up.

It is not easy but no comment, gesture, sigh from these people is not loaded with venom. You are very lucky if you are not experiencing this.

Very, very accurate.

The only way I can sum up my late mother is that she was like petulant child, with all the accompanying egocentrism that goes with a very young person. It was almost like her emotional maturity and development stopped at the age of 4.

She could only see things from her perspective, disinterested in others, threw tantrums and/or sulked if she didn’t get her own way. Was contrary, lacked empathy, set out to intentionally sabotage others enjoyment or special moments. Could turn on the sparkle and perform when she had an adoring and indulgent audience but change to a spitting, spiteful demon in moments and would lie brazenly without any conscience.

Old age made her worse as her world became smaller, so consequently she became more demanding as she no longer had access to an audience to feed her ego, she was bored and she had more time on her hands to fester on perceived injustices.

Thanks @Lexy70 and @JohnPrescottsPyjamas you have both articulated perfectly the awfulness of some people. It has been incredibly cathartic being able to speak to both of you and know you understand. I appreciate @MereDintofPandiculation has a different view and I respect that. I perhaps would suggest people walk a mile (nearly 60 years) in our shoes before they really comment. It is exhausting and demeaning all wrapped up in one parcel.

I'm finding this thread very helpful because in real life I have to be very mindful of others experiences and expectations in a way they are not with me. The default is loving parents,
I do love hearing how they've all had a great time. How someone's mum looked after her kids so she could get her hair cut and hung some washing up without it being ' I found your pegs on the line, do you need a peg bag. That's worked, your face looks thinner and I'm sure your little one will catch up quickly, you were a bit backward too'
But people rarely, and I often don't explain, that the elderly parents they see, excited about their cruise, will be hardcore bitching about you the moment you are out of sight.

My friend has just lost her dad, I can't be trampling all over her grief with my every day realisation that you don't need to talk to teenagers or young adults the way I was spoken to.

I think we all know that 'not all old people...' so I'd really appreciate not having anymore reminders on this thread.

@Septoctwed I have read your posts and you along with @HoraceGoesBonkers and @Lexy70 have clearly experienced similar lives to us. It is hard to maintain the facade of normality and I definitely did that for far far too long, smiling along when people told me how wonderful my mother was having spent no more than half an hour with her maybe a couple of times a year. Hiding the reality looking back is shame because I believed I was the problem. Realising I am not and never was ‘the problem’ has both liberated and hindered me. I do know I am a better parent for the experience as I have nurtured my own kids as opposed to making them feel useless. I do hope this thread has helped you.

@BlueLegume We understand and know exactly what you mean. I’m glad you have found the thread cathartic and I must apologise as I’m very aware I’ve offloaded and ranted perhaps too much!

We’re sold an image and a perception of loving mother/daughter relationships - and many of them are - but these particular women seem to view their daughters as rivals to be kept in their place and know their place in the hierarchy, rather than enjoying what should be a very unique bond. I now reconcile myself with the thought that, by her conduct, she missed out completely and I really need to feel sad for her, rather than angry. I’ve also broken the cycle as my adult daughter and I have a very supportive, honest and nonjudgmental connection that I could never have had with my own parent.

I do wonder sometimes if she also couldn’t see or acknowledge that I wasn’t a permanent child; that she couldn’t cope with me becoming an independent woman who resisted being moulded into a mini me of her, didn’t support her extreme views and opinions or give her ego positive strokes all the time. I posted earlier in the thread that she wanted a living doll she could dress and create in her own image and rather than feeling proud, like most normal parents would be, that she’d raised a self reliant, capable daughter, she was consumed by envy and bitterness and took every opportunity to wrong foot me and create doubt in my mind.

@Lexy70 unfortunately you are giving my parents the benefit of doubt. She knew fine well I wasn't an EN because I did my first degree in biology and was reminded frequently how I'd wasted my degree on being a nurse That’s not quite what I was meaning, if she was used to the old SEN’s and hasn’t got her head round the fact that nursing has changed, then for you with a degree to go into a career which she associated with 2 gcse’s really would seem “a waste”.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas my mum also wanted a living doll - I've now got Cliff Richard stuck in my head, I'm providing backing vocals in the style of the Young Ones.

I do think society of the time, must take some blame. My mum watched the movies and TV shows and once women had bagged their man, that was often it. Very few stories about middle age or middle aged main characters as leads. She had very little reference.
She adored Shirley Valentine when that came out, finally a film for her.

I met DH when I was 21, it was fascinating watching them transition from a student parent relationship to an adult-child parent almost friendship.
My own parents continued to trot out parenting cliches for the next few decades - tough love, always a mother, I may not like you but I will always love you... but very little in the way of getting on, respect or reflection about change.

Ok, @lexy,@BlueLegume ,@JohnPrescottsPyjamas @Septoctwed I get the message. No need for anyone else to pile on

@MereDintofPandiculation I certainly don't think there is a pile on, I think people are posting their very raw and honest accounts of their difficult parent.
I think unless you have dealt directly with a person like this it is very hard to understand. Their motivation is never good,they are consistently vile and cause as much chaos as possible. All of this is done with intent.
In life it is very annoying having friends who don't understand and think your mum is "fantastic", I actually had this yesterday. That is why this thread is so valuable as the other women really really get it and to be that is invaluable x

I think the point of the thread is to vent in a safe place to people who understand, not to have feelings analysed and tempered and be encouraged to see the other side. Having a mother like this is incredibly damaging as you’re growing up and I for one don’t care what drove mine to be like that, it doesn’t make it ok if she was simply not breaking the cycle.

I think you seem a lovely person Mere, and certainly do have an awful lot to offer, but perhaps not on this one thread.

@SockFluffInTheBath I agree, I spent decades analysing my mother's behaviour trying to find a reason why she was so vile. Now I don't care she actively chooses to be vile every single time she opens her mouth, that is her conscious and active choice.

Like most on this thread I hope I have broken the cycle despite being abused as a child. X

I always want to know why people do what they do.
And understanding the reasons can sometimes help people move on.
But it's always a choice.
Many people have broken the chain of abuse.
I have ti tell myself :

Just because there is a reason , doesn't mean that it is an excuse - otherwise the abuse continues.

I do remember as a child feeling really annoyed that my actually pretty nice great grandmother always used to be bringing up my grandads brother who lived close but visited about once a month- whereas my grandad ( who took me frequently with him) used to visit twice a week religiously - but the conversation was always about her other son- not asking what my grandad was up to etc - maybe the old saying of absence makes the heart grow fonder has something in it- whereas those bearing the brunt of daily moans are the ones who actually the ones who offer most care and support

Absolutely, and in every other part of my life this is how I operate. But. It’s not my job to fix my mum, it was her job to not break me.

I don’t hate her, I don’t expend energy in how I feel about her anymore. That’s not say I’ve forgiven her, but it doesn’t bite at me anymore and that’s good enough.

I’m not picking at you @TammyJones I think I’m just letting it all fall out my head because I’ve never been able to before. No one wants to hear this irl.