Selling the home to pay for care

[PassingStranger]

Is it right you can't be made to sell your house to go towards care costs, if someone else is living in it?
Can it be a partner or do you have to be married.
What if you've a son or daughter living with you. Can they still make you sell the home?
Thanks.

I don't think marriage is a requirement, but there is an age cut off (around state pension age from memory) - so a partner would usually qualify but often offspring wouldn't.

Have checked, and it's 60, not pension age.

For the property to be disregarded for funding it must be occupied by a partner or civil partner, or by a relative older than 60 or in receipt of certain disability benefits, or an under-18 son or daughter of the person needing care.

'Relative' means Relative includes: (a) parent (including an adoptive parent); (b) parent-in-
law; (c) son (including an adoptive son); (d) son-in-law; (e) daughter
(including an adoptive daughter); (f) daughter-in-law; (g) step-parent; (h)
step-son; (i) step-daughter; (j) brother; (k) sister; (l) grandparent; (m)
grandchild; (n) uncle; (o) aunt; (p) nephew; (q) niece; (r) or the spouse,
civil partner or unmarried partner of (a) to (k) inclusive.

What If My Family Still Live in the Home?
If other inhabitants want to continue living in the home when you enter care, you do not have to sell to pay the fees and do not have to worry about loved ones becoming homeless. Qualifying dependants have the right to stay indefinitely, this includes:

• your spouse
• your civil partner
• your unmarried partner
• a close relative over 60 (or incapacitated)
• a close relative under 16 for whom you are legally responsible
• your ex-spouse/partner if they are a single parent

Are the care fees then taken from the estate when the person living in the house dies? What I mean is, assuming both are over 60, if Topsy and Tim are married and Tim goes into care leaving Topsy in the house for ten years after he dies, will she be able to sell the house and downsize, or sell it and leave the proceeds to charity, or will the LA come after the estate to pay for Tim's fees?

Yes they defer recovery until the property is sold or vacated - it is not possible to downsize that way you describe unless the surplus income is used to cover care fees

Many local author won't automatically want someone living there out. They give discretionary disregards e.g. if someone moved in to care for the relative they could get the disregard... as long as they had been there a while and not just last week,

Also, I've known adult children be allowed to remain and house disregarded when adult child is under 60 with no additional needs but has always lived with the parent.

It's not always black and white.

https://www.independentage.org/get-advice/health-and-care/paying-for-care/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-residential-care

My family is dealing with this at the moment. My sister lived with our mother, who is now in a care home. As my sister is 60+ the house can't be taken to pay care home fees.

Look at the links given above for a spouse or partner living in the property.

BUT I have seen a couple of women completely shafted as, although they don't have to sell the house to pay for care, their pensions alone aren't enough to cover utilities, food and maintenance so they can no longer afford to live there without their spouse's pension too - which would now go on care costs.

Yes, in my Topsy and Tim example above, if Tim is in care and Topsy can't afford to live in the house on her own, but can't downsize to free up some money without losing any capital to fees, what is she supposed to do?

There might be enough if T&T live in London or the SE, but if they are in the North or West Topsy would be stuffed.

Topsy can sell and half the capital is hers. If she is unable to buy somewhere with half the capital and Tim has capacity, he can make a gift from his share sufficient for her to be adequately housed without it affecting his financial assessment for care home fees. I'm not sure of the rules if Tim doesn't have capacity.

The value of the house is disregarded for the financial assessment. No fees rack up against it. Once Tim's savings - excluding thr house - fall below the self-funding threshold, the LA is responsible.for fees.

Thanks. That's not what was said upthread, though.

Yes they defer recovery until the property is sold or vacated - it is not possible to downsize that way you describe unless the surplus income is used to cover care fees.

Also, if T&T have separate bank accounts, are their savings assumed to be shared, or can Topsy hang on to her own?

That shouldn't happen, the local authority financial assements are able to allow for some of the person in care's income to be disregarded to allow for the maintenance of the person remaining at home. If that's not happening then the people impacted need to go back to the council and request a financial reassessment.

The property is completely disregarded whilst there is an eligible person (Topsy) still living in it. If Topsy dies or decides to move / downsize then Tim's share of the property is then taken into account and would be used for care fees. If Tim dies first whilst Topsy is still living 8n the house then there is no payment due from Tim's estate for care fees from his share in the property.

regarding savings, any savings in Tim's name are Tim's. Any joint savings it is assumed that half belong to Tim at every assessment.

So if in the joint account there is £100k the council will assess that £50k of it belongs to Tim. If a year later when the financial assessment is reviewed Topsy has left her £50k in the joint account and Tim's £50k has been spent on care fees then the council will say that half of the £50k still in the account is now Tim's and Topsy will be left with only £25k.

Basically separating finances is VERY important

If it is a partner, or else someone who is vulnerable in some way then the house is not taken into consideration when assessing payment. Otherwise it is - if someone who is fit and well lives there then it is still treated as an asset and will be assessed as value belonging to the person in the home and therefore available for care home fees. However, sometimes you can negotiate with the LA to give time to sell the house - they put a charge on the property which means that, after the house is eventually sold, they have the right to recoup the amount they have paid out in home fees.

Thanks. I can see that if Topsy downsizes and frees up some money, half of that would be Tim's, so logic dictates that it should be used for his care; but the flip side of that is that poor old Topsy has no obvious way of getting by unless she has money in her own name.

So if Tim dies in care and his cousin Bagpuss moves in with Topsy, who needs care herself down the line, the house would be sold to pay for it, and Bagpuss would have to find somewhere else to live? If, OTOH, Topsy avoids care and dies at home in the arms of her lover, Bagpuss can stay there, or Topsy can leave it to her children, Bill and Ben?

If Bagpuss is living there as her partner, and is over 60, the house is disregarded for Topsy's care. If he's just a lodger then house has to be sold or a charge put on it.

Have a look at Age UK fact sheet 38. Very helpful with lots of examples.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/search/?q=Property+and+paying+for+residential+care&_t_dtq=true

Up to 50% of Tim's income from pensions etc can be disregarded from the financial assessment to provide for the person in the former 'marital home'. It's absolutely recognised that women in particular may not have had their own incomes or pensions so there are allowances to make sure 'Topsy' isn't left destitute.

The poster above mentions the age uk fact sheet 38 but number 39 covers this side of things https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs39-paying-for-care-in-a-care-home-if-you-have-a-partner.pdf#page8

A lovely old chap who visited his wife every day at my DM’s care home, told me that after he died, or needed himself to move to a care home, their house would be sold and the ‘rolled up’ fees recouped by the council.

They'd had no children and he was perfectly happy with this arrangement. At the time, his wife was entirely LA funded.

@ShyMaryEllen @hatgirl is reliable on these matters, and she is backed up by the AgeUK link given above.

He has misunderstood. If he needs care in the future and he moves out of their home then and only then will it be included in the financial assessments for both of them after the 12 week property disregard is applied.

In that situation there is no backpay owed for 'Topsy's' past care, but they both will have to pay care home fees after the home is sold until they both drop below the £24k charging threshold.

This is explained well in factsheet 38 linked by @Fgfgfg above.