struggling with elderly father and his mh

[Cottonsockblesser]

I'm an only child, my father is 79 years old. He has lived alone for nearly 20 years and copes well with washing, cooking, shopping etc. But his mental health is poor and I am struggling to cope.

He is being assessed for dementia but it is a long process.

He is lonely and is very much glass have full, not resilient or stoic. He has always been this way.

I have got him involved in volunteering in my village, taken him to look at a bungalow for sale, I meet up with him for coffee, include him in things, his grandchildren meet up with him as much as their busy lives allow. They are fantastic and take him for breakfast, to the theatre, to London galleries, rounds of golf. He regularly goes out with his elderly neighbour.

But it is not enough and my mental health is suffering under the burden he places on me. He has taken to coming over in the evenings unexpectedly just to talk about how lonely he is. He talks in a very droopy voice which drives me mad. He says he would really like a grandchild to move in next door. Wishes he lived in my village but when I suggest he moves he says he's too old. What he would like would be for me to organise everything and for him just to pack a suitcase and move into his new home. I have suggested he tries sorting out his home, get a skip, declutter. He has cans and medicine dating back decades. He ignores me.

Even when he is ok he is very very negative. Within minutes of arriving at my home he will have moaned about the weather/roads/traffic/something. He is full of self-pity and nothing I say will change him. His behaviour makes me want to see him less. He has much to be grateful for and from what I can tell from friends and their elderly parents he is very lucky.

I am never going to change him. I cannot see him less as I've tried that and it doesn't work. He turns up. He rings constantly. My husband is amazing but it is not quite the same for him. I do feel, weirdly, completely alone in dealing with this and I can't explain why. I think my father wants to move in with us (we now have spare rooms as the children have moved out) but I don't want him to and more importantly my husband is adamant he doesn't either. My father's negativity really gets him down.

How can I cope with the feelings of guilt and resentment I am left feeling? How can I protect my mental health from this? The self-pity has been there since my mother left him 40 years ago, even though he remarried.

That sounds so, so tough. I find this with my dad too, who has Parkinson's. He sometimes gets on a loop about how awful everything is and don't really know how to respond.

Sometimes I just agree: 'yes, it's crap isn't it?' and then change the subject to something that isn't about his current situation. I try to distract by suggesting we put some music on, look through some of his old photos etc.

You are right to stick to boundaries and make those clear, as you can only provide support if you yourself are OK. You can try only answering the phone at certain times. Only responding to messages at certain times. For the unexpected visits, maybe one way to deal with them is by doing something else as he's complaining to you? So say, 'sorry, I've just got to get on with this washing/baking/cleaning/sorting.' That might be easier than simply saying it's not a good time when he turns up, which I totally get would be hard to do.

It's so hard and as you say, very difficult to talk about or explain to people.

Thanks so much for your reply @Woadicea. I have done the phone thing, unintentionally, but it is very old and a bit tempremental so sometimes I don't get/hear his calls. He then rings the others. I have tried to explain that sometimes people cannot pick up for whatever reason but he ignores me.

I also stack the dishwasher on his visits - I find it's a good distraction from my feelings.

I dunno, it just seems that when you are old your feelings/needs override everyone else's regardless. It's so tricky. Feel quite depressed!

Can you temporarily acquire a real or imagined social life in the evening?

Remind him not to drop round unexpectedly as you might be out, and then be out several times.

You might not need to go out (depending on whether your car is visible outside the house, you can be seen through the windows etc). Or doing an urgent shop at the 24 hour supermarket. Doing something one of your children needs in the evening. Tell one of your friends and go round and drink tea at their house in the evening!

No real advice but just wanted to say your feelings are valid and this is too much for you to have to be expected to put up with 💐

Thank you @EmotionalBlackmail for your good ideas. I never think quickly enough when he rings and his demeanor on the phone is so alarming you think he has been given weeks to live etc. I've tried asking what the problem is but he says "I'll tell you when I get to you" so there is always that sliver of fear re bad news. I am going to try your tactics!

Sorry for late reply @TervenAcademicals it helps to be 'heard'. The guilt is awful, I think if only I was a better daughter...

I can't tell you how much this affects my life. Which makes me sound dramatic but there we are. I'm trying to deal with him and a load of my own problems. Being in your fifties is...not much fun.

He's trying to make his sadness and loneliness your problem. Something you have to sort, he wants a grandchild to move next door or for you to ask him to move in with you. It's not for you to sort, you've provided some solutions, move nearer and sell his house, but that's too much effort for him. He's not helpless, he can sort his house, he can join social groups, he can move, it's just that he wants you to facilitate it all.
You've got to ask him what progress he is making on changing his life? If he doesn't do anything, nothing is going to change. Stop tolerating his self pity and start ask him what is is doing about it.

You are quite right @Harvestfestivalknickers. I've had counselling in which we talked a lot about my father (among other things) and it was suggested I reflect it back to him in the way you suggested. I had forgotten and will try that next time.

His helplessness is so infuriating. He is quite capable of sorting things out but just won't. I think he is incredibly lazy and one way this manifests is him making his problems mine.

He is also manipulative. We are currently in a worry loop about a medical condition he has lived with for 25 years and has dealt with fine and is now concerned about every little thing, ringing me up twice, three times a day about it. I have put my phone on Do Not Disturb so there will be countless voicemails.

I wonder when the elderly start to get so selfish? I also worry it is inevitable although I plan to use him as an example of what not to do to my children when I get older.

I think when people retire, stop working and get older they lose structure in their life. My MIL says she has a 'busy' day if she has to do her shopping and go to the library. You and I probably get up, put a load of washing on, take kids to school, go to work, pick up kids from school, do the shopping, cook tea then do the ironing. We know if we don't do that, it will be harder for us tomorrow as we won't have any food in or any clean laundry.
Our parents don't have that focus, they can put off jobs (decluttering and skip!) for how ever long they want, then it becomes a downward spiral. You father wants you to declutter, he wants you to order the skip, he wants you to house him because he's out of the habit of 'doing things', it's easier to put them off. Everytime he rings with a problem ie health, throw the problem back 'did you ring the doctor?' or housing ' there's a lovely bungalow on the market, here ring the estate agent'. He wants you to wave a magic wand but you need to immediately put the emphasis back on him by asking what he has done about the problem before coming to you.

This would wear anyone down so don’t feel bad about it.

My gran was just like this, and as she got older and in more pain (she lived to 94) she be became cruel and unkind to my mum who cared for her for 20 years.

I don’t have a solution except to say if you need to take a step back for god’s sake DO NOT feel guilty.

wishing you ongoing fortitude xx

It’s really tricky and I know finding the balance between running yourself ragged doing everything and caring for someone so they can help themselves is hard.

With the house cleaning what I have tried on various people (with various levels of success) is breaking it down and accepting it’s not getting done in a weekend. So first off anything you don’t like? What’s the point in keeping it. This worked for an aunt who had inherited a load of furniture she had never liked, ok so you don’t need 4 beds now, let’s get rid of this lots. Are there any local tool shed/libraries nearby that would take hand tools and stuff? My gran cleared out loads when i mentioned the woman’s shelter we’re looking for things to help people set up in new homes, pots and pans, cutlery crockery etc as she never used it but felt she couldn’t just chuck it but this way she was doing something with it. Anything the grandchildren could put on eBay (which also gives him something else to talk about). The key is you give them the idea and say your pick up the boxes at the weekend but that’s it, he’s got to do the sorting himself. After that it’s anything being “kept for best” why not use it and get rid of the old stuff.

it’s a long haul and he might not be amenable to any of it but “stuff” is such a barrier to old age.

The thought @MrsQuietLife of having to care for my father until he is 90 makes me want to weep.

I think my generation is the first to have to deal with elderly parents and children. I was off his hands, independent, at 18 and his parents died in their late 60s so at my age he was retired with a wonderfully large inheritance and no responsibilities. Am sure he is not alone in that.

I wish I could step back but his neediness literally knows no bounds. He becomes more needy if I try to make myself less available and if he sees a lot of the family he becomes more needy. For example my daughter met him for coffee on Sat when she was home, then he rung her suggesting they meet up on Sunday. It doesn't get to her as it does me, probably because she isn't full of menopausal rage (haha) and because she is more in control of when she sees him (when she comes back to visit) so she can escape to her home a way away and her lovely life. As she should.

Thank you though for your kind words, people's kindness on this thread is helping. I just wish I could feel less about it all.

I'm afraid I'm not as kind as you @Bluescissorsbluepen. There is no way I am helping him to declutter. He has resources to hire a skip and the time to fill it in a very slow way but he is choosing to do neither. So be it. I know I will have to sort it when he's dead. It makes me look at my home and think, do I want my kids to have to deal with all this crap?

My friend's 84 year old mother, who is also a carer to friend's very elderly, sick father, has managed to declutter her house because she doesn't want her children to have to deal with decades worth of stuff when they die. My father has no inclination to do the same.

I'm also not roping in the children - they are young adults forging careers, buying their own places, working and playing hard. This is not their problem. But thank you for replying and for the idea.

‘think when people retire, stop working and get older they lose structure in their life. My MIL says she has a 'busy' day if she has to do her shopping and go to the library. You and I probably get up, put a load of washing on, take kids to school, go to work, pick up kids from school, do the shopping, cook tea then do the ironing’

oh@Harvestfestivalknickers , you will discover that your energy declines as your age grows. I used to be able to do a workman’s day, 8-4 up a ladder painting, now I can just about squeeze out a couple of hour and a half sessions, and I’m knackered afterwards. Ditto the big shop, once it’s been put away, it’s time for a sit down and a big sigh.

I am aware that this is not on the thread topic, before you assume it is senility as well as exhaustion that ails me.

Can you suggest moving into a residential home to him? So when he complains about being lonely/needing help/being unwell suggest moving into a residential home. He won’t but it might shock him a bit into lessening the complaining? As for him wanting to move in with you I would make it very clear he wouldn’t be- I know it might be rude but he genuinely needs to know. It sounds like he’s given up and wants to regress to bring a child again, looked after and everything organised for him. He can do that but he needs to know you won’t be picking up the slack.

As for the ringing can you organise to ring him at a certain time and tell him you won’t accept calls outside this as you are busy?

I agree people can't do as much once they get older but I do think some people could do more. My MIL was complaining of a 'busy' day of shop and library when she was in her 60s. My father has never complained - he just gets on with things, he drives a combine harvester in his 80s!

Oh no @Cottonsockblesser i definitely do not mean you do the declutterring! I only meant if he’s moaning he can’t move because he can possibly pack all the stuff you suggest he empties the shed and it can go to the tool library, if you take it counts as a visit.

only works if there is an ounce of wanting to improve from the elderly person.

im an endless sympathetic to the situation but no, do not get conned into spending all day on a chair emptying someone else’s kitchen.

this a million per cent, train yourself out of jumping to help/solve things - reply with oh dear, what are you going to do about it. You need to train yourself out of the default help him and into the default sympathetic and back to him.

It will take a while for the guilt to go away - but guilt is a feeling, it won't hurt you (well it gnaws a bit inside doesn't it) and it's not a fact or an indication that you are doing something wrong, it's a feeling.

He has actually suggested moving into a home @AluckyEllie but it felt more like a bit of a threat iyswim. I did say "well that would use up all your money then" which made him rapidly backtrack. He currently doesn't have any money worries so I think that would be more of a concern for him than me. No more brand new cars. No more food shopping in Waitrose. He has not had to watch a single penny for more than 30 years so I'm not sure he would like to start now. Hence why I don't think it was serious. As an aside, one of his many complaints during an Awful Evening Visit, as I think of them, was how moving his money from high interest account to high interest account "gets him down".

He hasn't outright asked to move in but I do think this is what it is all about. If he asks then that avenue's closed, whereas at the moment he can keep dreaming. But I think I do need to tell him that is not an option.

That is exactly what I need to do @TorroFerney - train myself out of reacting to him. Going to have to visualise being surrounded by a shield or something so all this rubbish bounces off. While replying "oh dear" absent-mindedly. Trouble is, it's a special visit, one that has been demanded with a "I'll tell you when I get to you" / emergency vibe so he sort of has our full attention. We abandon our evening, make a cuppa, sit down, and out all this crap comes.

I'm going to hop into my pj's and dressing gown and start fiddling with the dishwasher straight away next time. I just have to remember. When he rings though I get into a bit of a stressy tizzy. Stressed because I know what's coming, and a tizz because I worry that it's something awful.

What is also awful is that I'm left stewing for days (hence this thread!) while he is right as rain the next day, out for his regular coffee with his neighbour, the evening's visit never mentioned. I wonder if this could be dementia but then his self-pitying / lack of resilience has been ongoing since I was a teen...

Next time he says he's got something to tell you, in a doomy voice, can you remind him that last time he said this it was a fairly trivial matter and there's no need for the drama. If you say this in a bright and cheerful tone of voice he might get the message. Or just say you have to go out in 10 minutes so you will speak tomorrow.Do what you can to push back a bit each time, every time you stop all your activities and give him that emergency cup of tea, you are supporting the narrative that something terrible is going to be revealed. Just be a bit more brisk and cheerful if you can so you are not matching his Eeyore energy.

Such good ideas, thank you. You're right, I am supporting the narrative. It's such a long-standing habit. It's only really with the counselling recently that I realised what I was doing and the narrative isn't, actually, "poor dad" as I have thought since I was a teenager. It was so ingrained that I didn't even think to question it, which makes me feel quite stupid!

You've all been massively helpful, thank you.