Can't face visiting my dad

[Borntorunfast]

This is complicated and it's long, sorry!!

I've posted about my dad before. We thought he had dementia. It has taken ages to get the GP to take our concerns seriously, and in the meantime his behaviour went off the scale: eg. seven 999 call-outs in 4 days, all due to him making up illnesses, flinging himself on the floor ("falls") and then wedging himself between furniture so that no one could pick him up, screaming (ironically that he couldn't breathe, but he could breathe well enough to scream for 3 hours straight), terrible verbal abuse towards my mum, uncles, the paramedics, and me.

Anyway, after all those call-outs, the paramedics triggered a safeguarding report (mainly for mum, due to his verbal abuse), and they took him in.

Dad has been in hospital for 2 weeks. He's had a CT and MRI scan.

He doesn't have dementia.

He has now been referred to the hospital psychiatry team for an assessment next week. They want to put him on an anti-psychotic medication, as his behaviour has continued in hospital. In some ways this is good as we now have evidence/witnesses (dad lies all the time and puts "on a good show" whenever we have tried to get him help in the past). Though he's refusing the meds.

But - Dad wants me to visit. I've been on holiday for 2 weeks but am now back.

I've not had a visit or call this year where Dad hasn't shouted at me. Or been angry and abusive. I don't want to see him because it upsets me to the degree that I then can't sleep for several nights. I have ASD and so get upset more than (I think) 'normal' people; he makes me feel deeply unsafe, I can't quite describe it.

He's also been a shit dad all my life.

I spent every day of my holiday on the phone advocating for both him and mum, and speaking to mum 2-3 times a day, messaging in between. I am super calm and practical and know that the best help I can give is this - sorting and pushing and advocating. Being the grown up.

I can't be that person if I feel so frightened when we are in the same room. I feel like a tiny child being terrorised by this awful looming bullying man, even though he's 80, clearly out of his mind, and frail.

Should I just woman up and go see him? My family think I am a massive bitch for not - but I do SO much for my parents, just not in a showy way (unlike my brother). If I go I'll get my 'good daughter' credits and they'll back off for a bit. None of my family know I have ASD, btw - I don't feel safe enough to tell them. I have long been characterised as the 'weird' and 'emotional' one, though they are all happy enough to lean on me when something difficult needs sorting out.

I don't know what to do. Would really welcome advice as I feel, as someone with ASD, that my decision making is off. Thanks if you read this far!!

Hi there,

Don't go, he is safe in hospital and it is out of your hands. Why subject yourself to more abuse. You've done plenty and taken plenty.

How old is your dad? What are they thinking is wrong with him for his behaviour to be so extreme.

Poor you. Please don't visit, you don't deserve to be abused x

Sorry just seen he is nearly 80 x

As much a you hate it (and I would too in your position), I would go and visit him but I would busy myself with making sure he has water, check if he needs a news paper, pop down the corridor to get a coffee etc, etc just so I don't have to sit and listen to him ! I'd make it clear I couldn't stay long and as soon as he started shouting at me, I'd say ' right it's time for me to go, obviously you're upset'. And go.

Thanks @Lexy70 . We're waiting for a formal diagnosis, no one seems to know, and the community mental health nurse who has assessed him so far (who is lovely) admits that he's a very complicated case. It's just staggering to see him go from being relatively OK to ... this over the past few years.

If you do go, it doesn't have to be a long sit there all day visit.

It's fine to plan it as 'I am just dropping in quickly after work, need to get home to make the kids tea' or any other set up that works for you.

It is also fine not to visit at all if that is going to work better for you.

This isn't going to resolve quickly so you need to protect yourself.

It does sound an odd presentation with strange behaviours rather than say confusion or psychosis.

Has he a history of this kind of behaviour or is it all new. Hopefully they will keep him in long enough to establish a diagnosis and treatment plan.

What is your relationship with your mum like?

I have a horrendous m enabled by my father. They are mid eighties and I see no end in sight.

Look after yourself, it sounds like your dad has already taken up an awful lot of your time and headspace. Why should you visit and be his whipping boy. Don't subject yourself to that.

He is safe and being cared for, give yourself a break from him xxxc

This is what I have tried in the past, but he talks at you and won't let you get a word in, and if you try and interrupt (even with, I need the loo!) he gets very very angry and the abuse starts. If I say I have to leave, he starts shouting at me to get my priorities straight. If I say I have to go to work, he says I should be better at earning money so that I could look after him more. If I say I've been listening to you for 2 hours, he just says well you should bloody listen then (shouts the 'listen' bit) because then I wouldn't have to keep talking.

It's like torture. He's not interested in you as a person, he just wants to talk and talk and then maybe ramp it up and shout at you. There's no reasoning, no distraction, nothing that works. His record is talking 'at' my uncle for 4 hours straight, and even then he was fuming that my uncle had to leave.

(Sorry, that was a long reply!! I mean, I've tried everything and nothing works, he just wants to have me sit there and listen to him shout.)

He sounds horrible and he scares you. He sounds like before his illness he was an abusive bully. His entitlement is off the scale. Don't let anyone scare and intimidate you. What does your mum do when he is bullying you, does she stand up for you?

He sounds like an entitled arse expecting you to sacrifice your life for him. Ignore your wider family, take on what tasks you want to do from a distance like phonecalls. Take your siblings etc moaning at you rather than the fear that is generated by him abusing you.

What positivity has he ever brought into your life? I think you are driven by fear, obligation and guilt.

Prioritise your own health and happiness. Easier said than done but you don't have to suffer at the hands of this bully now you are an adult woman with agency

Much love xxx

Thanks @Lexy70 and yes, that's what the hospital have said, they're all scratching their heads trying to work out what it is! He's always been selfish and self-absorbed, gaslights for England and inflates his self-worth via grand stories, but a lot of this is new.

Mum and me are OK. She has her own issues, can't deal with (what I know now are) my ASD traits, but she's a good, loving person. She doesn't deserve how he now treats her.

Really sorry to hear about your mum. It's horrible, isn't it? The no end in sight bit. Sending you love.

And thanks for your kind words. I think I'll continue to stay away but maybe be honest with the rest of the family about why, even if they don't understand it.

In your shoes what I would do:

Book a lovely hotel near him for after your visit.

Arrange some nice things for you to do after the visit.

Tell your DH or anyone else you can rely on to phone you at a particular time.

Arrange with your DH that he will say one of your DC is ill and you need to leave immediately.

Tell your dad you need to leave immediately explain the "situation" and go.

I'd suggest a vomiting dc.

That way you "see him" but for a very short time.

Your dad sounds seriously mentally ill and very difficult to be around. Feel free to take this advice if you need to but also feel free to not go.

He is NOT your responsibility.

I suspect he will wind up on an NHS ward on safeguarding grounds.

Really if it upsets you that much I would not visit. Why would you care about somebody that didn’t care about you? My Dad was a horrible person. He lived until 97. My husband thought he lived so long because he looked after himself and didn’t spend time thinking about other people. I didn’t see him an all after he was 90 and very little for the years before that. He died several years ago and I have absolutely no regrets.

Cross post @Lexy70 - just read your last post. Made me tear up. Thank you x

And thanks @Octavia64 and @Flossflower . I spend a lot of my time/life second guessing myself, so your messages are more helpful that you might know!

I wouldn’t go. Fuck that. He was a shit dad, he makes you scared, he shouts at you. Just nope, you have already done enough.

I wouldn’t go but tell the medical staff you can’t put up his abuse any more because it’s making you ill.

If someone made your child feel the way you do talking to him you’d probably throw them out of the house.

Do not visit this man.

He doesn't sound like any sort of dad to me, it's just a title and it means nothing if he didn't actually do the job.

Keep you peace and offer the help you can and are willing to give on your terms, everyone else can fuck off.

@Borntorunfast I’m sorry that you’re in such a difficult position.

please don’t feel guilty about looking after yourself first and foremost, any decent parent would want that for their child, even an adult one. The fact that your df is so absorbed in his own needs kind of proves that you owe him nothing.

Dementia might have been ruled out, at least for now but I don’t think they can rule out early stages entirely, but he’s clearly had a change mentally to be uninhibited and acting the way he is. I’m presuming the hospital ruled out physical illnesses like infections? Even then you don’t have to sacrifice your own state of mind for him. Let people say what they want (and be prepared that they will, people love passing a judgement they don’t have to bare the consequences of) - I’m telling you it’s absolutely fine for you to step back. You don’t possess whatever it might be that he needs.

There's only you can balance up the guilt of not seeing him versus the fear of going. You need to do what's best for you, whichever that is.

If you do decide to go, you can get up and walk out at any point. If he's screaming after you, well that's something the staff can add to their record of behaviour. You absolutely do not have to provide an audience for his monologue. I'd probably go to stop the family nagging me but it would be a token visit and as others have already suggested, I'd have my exit planned.

Even if you do go, there is nothing to stop you just getting up and leaving when he starts on you. You don't have to say anything or try to convince him to let you leave, you can stand up, get your bag and walk away.

I know that easy for me to say, and maybe harder to do, but can you practice it in your head? Visualise yourself just leaving? That kind of thing can be helpful, if you know what it looks like in your mind. Then it's not a shock response, it's a planned safety move to take you away from what is a distressing situation.

But you don't have to go. You really don't.

Your other family can be dealt with by saying 'I am supporting mum and dad by doing [the things you're doing]. You can support them by visiting or by taking on some of the things I've been doing. Your choice.'

I've been in a similar situation for the last year or so. I ended up repeatedly walking out on Dad when he started at me. Just pick myself up and walk out of the door. Left him to contact me when he was ready. The longest time was 4 weeks!
I told him I was helping all I could and if he was SO insistent that I wasn't doing enough (he wanted me to immediately give up work to be his and mum's carer!) then he'd find out the hard way about the amount I was doing.
It came to a head on Mum's birthday last year, when we went round to surprise them with dinner out etc and he just verbally laid into me. My son and I walked straight out, my husband stayed behind to give him a few home truths.

I had to just stop, it was destroying me. It made me ill, it made my husband ill worrying about me. My 15yr old son should not have seen that.

Mum and Dad are now together in a beautiful care home, he still rants that i'm not doing enough. But at least I can walk out and know he's safe.
And Mum's safe.

I would not go. Which family members are guilt tripping you? Why are they doing that? Perhaps they have listened to him rant and want someone else to suffer, perhaps they don't know him as well as you do. Who knows. But you owe them nothing.
If you feel you have to go, get up and leave as soon as he starts on you. Do it every time. I had to do that to my mum when she would start to criticise me. It eventually worked

Don’t go. And it also doesn’t sound to me as though there is anything ‘over-emotional’ in your response to this, but that you are the only one in your family who is able to recognise and acknowledge the true horror of the situation with your father (now and in the past). You’ve done more than enough. You don’t need to go, and he won’t appreciate it anyway / it won’t be ‘enough’ for him - because you can’t fix this or fix him.

This sounds so hard & I really feel for you.

Thanks everyone, so much. @Em3978 I'm so sorry you have faced something similar.

Interestingly one of the people assessing him, the dementia nurse, said he lacks any "insight" , as in, he has no awareness of the impact of his behaviour. I've said to him in the past, Dad, you're really upsetting me, or you really upset me last time we met, and he just blanks me, or denies it, or gaslights, or deflects with anger, like he has no memory of it. He does this with everyone. Consequently he has lost all of his (few) friends but instead of reflecting on why, he is hugely bitter that they're not his friends any more.

It is so bizarre. How can he not know? It's like we're all his playthings, robots without feelings, or that the empathy part of his brain has completely switched off. I reckon I could saw my arm off in front of him and he'd just stare blankly if I said it hurts, and then carry on with his ranting. Nothing and no one is more important than him.

I wouldn't go.

My dad often ends up in hospital because the only person he cares about is himself. I used to do the rushing 2 hours there to see him and then 2 hours back for half an hour to sit in a room where he was more interested in watching TV than talking to you. I stopped doing it. He lies about how ill he is, (he's not) he just likes the attention. He's 84 and the only time he ever speaks to me is if he's in hospital and he's bored or if there is something wrong with his phone, or kindle or tablet. If I phone mum and dad at home he says hello and passes the phone on to my mum. Everyone thinks the sun shines out of his arse, but he's a dick and I don't visit any more.

You absolutely need to protect yourself. There is no clinical reason by the sound of it for your dad to be that way, he's just been awful and as an adult you do not have to put up with it. Look after yourself first and let all those beating you, step up and do their bit.