Advice: gentle encouragement to stop driving not worked

[NettieHead]

Hoping someone might be able to give me some pointers my elderly step GF really shouldn't be driving. Having spoken to him, I get the feeling he doesn't feel capable, but both him and my DGM are so fixated on him continuing to drive (indeed DGM says he may as well go into a home if he can't drive - it's a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship, with the added issues of cognitive decline, but that's another story) that the gentle conversations/suggestions that it's time to stop just haven't landed.

I'm worried for their safety, but more importantly the safety of pedestrians and other road users. It feels like it's all going to blow up when I step in more firmly. Is there any help I can get to do this more gently/remove myself from the centre of the equation? Is it something their GP could be involved in?

I guess if it comes to it, I'm just going to have to be the "trouble-maker" - it feels better coming from me than either DM or uncle having to potentially damage their relationship with their mother.

Any advice on how to do make this happen, but as gently/kindly as possible? (We have been laying the ground work, bus passes, familiarisation with bus routes, taxi numbers, suggesting mobility scooter etc. and of course will be on hand to help too - just trying to minimise the loss of independence feeling). They are both late 80's if that is relevant.

Thank you everyone for the helpful advice and signposting. I know what needs to be done and will be making some phone calls tomorrow to set the ball in motion.

You could contact your local police station and discuss this issue with your local traffic police.After an elderly driver nearly killed my husband last year, I happen to know that they estimate that 75% of their workload is dealing with elderly drivers who cannot always cognitively respond to other drivers soon enough to avoid collisions.

Do they? Is it?

I only ask as I always thought young male drivers were the most likely to cause accidents.

BiL just took his father’s keys and drove the car away.

That's what we were told by the leading police investigator of our case. It may be regional. It's also been super traumatic, but I am pretty sure he said 75%. Our population is mostly ageing. Perhaps we just don't realise how many old people are out and about on the roads causing havoc.

I'm not disputing that older people cause accidents, but the statistics in no way bear out that they cause 75% of them.

Learning to drive seems to be happening later as it is so expensive. I wonder if cost of insurance and having to have black boxes is also having an impact on new young drivers.

Update: I have found the relevant option on DVLA and submitted my concerns. Plan to head round after work and ask him to give me the car keys. I'll explain that he should report his diagnosis to DVLA and insurers and could be breaking the law by not doing so. Hopefully that will be enough that he'll make the decision willingly.

This is such a sensible approach. Unfortunately I think they are beyond the point where this kind of sensible rationale will work - they are just so desperately trying to cling to their independence.

I will be recommending this to my parents though as they head towards their 70's. So much better to make a proactive plan and have a degree of autonomy/ownership over the process.

Well done for taking action OP. If it helps. the stubbornness / entrenchment is likely part of of the cognitive decline, it's not their "true" personalities.

@Askingforadvice78 This is why I believe an annual driving test should be compulsory after 75. Or possibly 70.
driving is a privilege, not a right, and drivers should be regularly assessed for fitness given the cost of accidents both in human and financial terms. I would also support 5 yearly check tests for all drivers.

You take his keys off him and tell him he’s not safe to drive anymore. It’s not rocket science. Do it before he kills someone.

Hi Op, you haven’t explained why you think that your Gf shouldn’t be driving.
Has he had an accident or have you observed his driving at all?
Being old, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a danger on the roads and if he’d been diagnosed with early dementia, his Dr would inform the DVLA.
So what is worrying you?

I agree. I did an online speeding course recently and actually I think they ought to be compulsory regularly. It was very useful and eye opening. A great refresher.

Rather than telling him what to do (which in my situation would make her much much worse) try telling him you’ve just learned something shocking- that your insurance isn’t valid if you haven’t kept the DVLA informed of health conditions, and that people can be driving illegally without knowing it, and be prosecuted and so on.

Put the fear of God into them, without telling them what to do.
If they were reasonable they’d already have stopped!

To be fair, the previous cases are awful and sad, but unusual. Most older drivers self limit, only going to familiar places, only driving in the day, becoming more cautious. Then they have bumps and scrapes. Then they stop.
FiL stopped after an accident that was someone else’s fault, but he couldn’t remember what happened so didn’t want to risk it.

There would have to be a huge increase in the number of driving examiners. At the moment you have to wait 24 weeks to get a driving test in many areas of the country, let alone for assessments for elderly drivers.
There needs to be better processes in place to stop those no longer capable of driving safely.

It's very hard, I know. FIL is currently housebound after a fall, but was recently told he shouldn't drive pending further medical tests. He'd only been making familiar local journeys as it was, and we've been getting concerned about his ability to process information quickly enough to drive safely.
DH somewhat ungently, but with a degree of relief, took the car keys away to prevent him falling into temptation and visiting other elderly relatives, all scattered in various rural villages. Some of them have a patchy bus service, but the stops are a long way from their actual houses, so 'just getting a bus' isn't a viable route to independence. I don't really know what is.

Those short familiar local journeys are the ones where they kill innocent people. Good for your husband for taking the keys.

It's very difficult. Had to stop my mum driving due to medical reasons. GPs don't always inform dvla as they often think the consultant has made the necessary referral and vice versa. Sister and I very much demonised for being up front and truthful that we wouldn't let our kids in her car with her so why should kids/people we don't know be put at risk because mum is driving. Lots of fear reloss of independence and it did happen so I get why lots of people are saying older drivers are fine. It is such a huge change to their lifestyle that they don't want to admit, even if they are well, their response times aren't good enough for driving.

We have the same issue, there’s no way DM should be driving, at 92 she has very limited mobility in her knees and spinal degeneration and could not do an emergency stop. Her consultant has written to the GP saying he was worried about her driving (we are not supposed to know this).

We’ve tried pointing out that the costs of running the car would easily cover taxis, but she’s not having that. She is financially comfortable so says she will pay whatever it takes.

We’ve tried saying that we’re worried that she has an accident that might not be her fault and ends up incapacitated and unable to live independently. That made no difference.

Stumped now as to what to do - either inform local police of our concerns or the DVLA?

The thing is it doesn't depend solely on age. There are very many drivers older than 75 who are still good careful drivers and safer than the 18 year old boy racers in their souped up cars. Decline and being unsafe to drive is very individual.
My mother is 86 and shows no sign of any cognitive or physical decline. She has been driving for almost 70 years and continues to do so, although has decided she no longer wants to drive to places further than 4 hours away. All her similar aged friends still drive, they are all widows but did regularly drive prior to being widowed, so want to retain their independence, one of them even still drives to the south of France with no issues.
However they are aware that the time will come when doctors or their children will say the time has come to stop, and they're ok with that, until then they continue with their families' blessing.

Driving may be a privilege and not a right, but in most of the country it’s also a prerequisite for taking an active part in society. Yet the majority of voters, who-are drivers, care not a jot about this, nor do they give any thought about their future selves

I told the police about my neighbour. Car had no tax, no MOT and he shouldn't have been driving, having hit someone else's car and not even noticed

He managed to make it out it was all my fault and I was picking on him and I got a bollocking off the police for "bullying an old man" (try the other way round)

Stop worrying about it? Her consultant has written to the gp, she doesn't want to stop driving, there's nothing more you can do.

From my experience the best way is to make them think it's all their own idea to give up driving. My friend is in his 80's, kept maintaining that he could still drive perfectly well (despite also moaning to me about his near blindness, inability to balance or judge distance or move quickly). I kept asking him about how he was managing to park (it seemed the most neutral point) when he couldn't judge distance. After a while it did seem to occur to him that, yes, parking was getting tricky and he managed to convince himself that the decreasing size of local parking spots meant that he ought to stop driving.

The self-delusion was very strong, but EVERYONE was telling him he wasn't fit to drive and I think he just didn't want to back down and say 'yes, you're right'. By blaming local businesses for wanting to capitalise on parking revenue by making the spaces too small to get his (stupidly oversize) car into, he could rationalise that it wasn't his fault.