How to cope with relentless negativity

[SmugglersHaunt]

I realise this isn’t a patch on what some of you are going through with your parents, but I’ve called my 87-year-old mum twice every day since my dad died 3 years ago and nearly every time she’s complaining about being tired/feeling sick and how she wishes she hadn’t woken up / wishes she wasn’t here any more (wants to be dead basically). I see her often too and she has numerous carers going in.

She’s been to the doctors numerous times and is on AD. Nothing physically wrong with her apart from bad back and hiatus hernia which she’s on pills for. Doctor doesn’t want to increase the AD dose and has referred her to CBT (which I doubt will work).

I can cope with the relentless negativity, and the fact that I’ve slipped from being her child to being her counsellor most of the time, but if I have issues in my own life (often) I feel like I’m drowning and cracking up. Being told by your mum 2x every day that she wishes she was dead isn’t easy, so any tips anyone?

I talk to her about how she’s feeling every day and have tried lots of sympathy, listening, sometimes changing the subject etc etc but it feels like I’m not coping and it’s making me very miserable. My brother didn’t talk to me (long story, but no one knows why. But he’s vile). I’m feeling incredibly down about it

sorry this is so long!

Op I'm sorry for this. Its not easy coping with an elderly relative and their mindset. Have you anyone else to talk to??? Sending hugs 🫂 💐 🙏

Who else does she see and talk to regularly? It's easy to get into this habit after a death and then it becomes ongoing - I was living with mine after she was widowed and came very close to total dependence.

Can you reduce the calls and encourage her to interact with others more? A bereavement group for older people made quite a difference to us.

God that sounds so draining. I'm sorry you're going through this. Do you have any support where you can talk to somebody?

My situation is different to yours but my mother was incredibly negative all the time, she always had a complaint, a bad story or everything in life was just terrible. It got so bad I felt drained just driving to her house.

I hope you find some support for yourself x

You could be me! My sister and I are in the same position with our DM. I come to stay with her for 2 weeks every 2 months or so (sometimes every month) and I'm constantly on edge, stressed and miserable because of the negativity. But she doesn't seem to see how it impacts everyone around her.

My DN who is 16 does not want to come around to visit her because DM cries all the time or moans at her that she's not doing enough for her.

She has good health except for neuropathy in her feet. Her mind is sharp and she's had all the tests under the sun and she's as healthy as she can be for an older lady in her late 80s.

I don't know have any advice (sorry) but just know you are not alone. I don't understand why she is like this.

Me too. Mum has passed recently but over the last few years it was mind numbling depressing. The endless 'I wish I was dead', 'you dont know what its like','can you do this and this for me and do it urgently because otherwise I will worry'.

As others say - drop the calls every day. Its not fair on YOU. It doesnt do the parent much good either. Its not as though all these calls are making things better. You are just hearing the same old thing again and again.

Keep your mental health and health and well being plus your direct family as the priority. Dont let the elderly rob you of this. Speaking from experience and although I had firm boundaries and was very very firm with parent its still bloody hard.

If you have any siblings who are doingvery little dont let them tell you what you should be doing whilst doing next to nothing themselves!

Sounds like my late father. It is very frustrating - and sometimes you have to take a harder line, and actually challenge their draining negativity although it feels rather harsh. On the other hand, you are not a professional therapist and it's not doing your mental health any good!

I would be quite direct and ask if there is anything practical you can do to help them. Or what outcome they would like to see from their moaning at you every time you speak to them. If this doesn't achieve anything then, "sorry DM and I know you're feeling very down but if there isn't anything I can actually do then I really don't want to hear it day in and day out so please can we change the subject." Repeat as often as necessary.

My DM goes through phases of this, you have my sympathy if it's all the time.

I do a quick assessment to check there isn't an actual emergency.

If not I either start talking myself and don't let her get a word in, or make sure I am busy doing something else mumsnetting and just let it wash over me with occasional hmms and ahas to look like I am listening.

Topics like what is happening on Strictly are very useful as well.

Everything everyone else says. Cultivate a demeanour of resolute cheerfulness. Care workers seem to cope by treating everything as today's foible, not as an emotion/feeling to be understood and sympathised with.

Agree with the resolute cheerfulness! Also, I stopped asking my elderly widowed mother how she was feeling years ago, because it always segued into an endless self-pity party. Now, I always open the conversation with “So what have you been doing?”, pounce on the slightest positive response and focus the conversation on that.

About a year or so after dad died, I also rowed back on the daily phone calls.

But the absolute best thing has been her moving into a retirement housing complex because of the social contact it facilitates. Before that, she was at the GP’s 2 to 4 times a week. Since she moved in 18 months ago, she’s been once!

Thanks all for your replies, and really sorry you're facing / have faced the same thing. I find it incredibly difficult, and it's a comfort to know others have the same experience (even though I wouldn't wish it on anyone!)

This afternoon her carer phoned me to say how drained she was by the whole thing (!). Every day my mum says 'I've never felt this bad before' etc etc. I always point out that that's not strictly true (i.e. totally untrue) and say to her to honestly score how she's feeling out of five (or ten if she prefers) in her diary every day so she can look back and see how she's felt in the past to give her some perspective, and this is an easy task that won't take very much time or effort. She won't do it though, and she won't switch on the TV or the radio etc. So she just sits in her chair and says how tired she is, and how she feels sick (but can still eat pretty much anything put in front of her).

When I was growing up, she was very good at throwing herself into misery on occasion and was quite emotionally manipulative, and sadly that seems to have increased now she's old. I love her, but I feel like she's strangling me

That's very difficult. I would try a few things if she will let you - Age UK telephone befrienders, Mind mental health workers if available locally to you, or support groups as per the earlier poster. Could the carer do with a break - do you employ them directly? What about moving to a job share so that it's not all on the two of you?

I rather agree with you about the CBT - I simply don't see a bereaved lady in her 80s agreeing that her life is actually fine and it's just her thoughts dragging her down. Life IS harder at that age. I'd be more inclined to look at something behavioural or sensory - music or gardening or cooking or art? You never know. Mind again are good for this stuff.

No advice but solidarity. I actually live with my mother and it’s hell. She’s always been very difficult but now she’s in early (ish) dementia she’s even worse. This morning she got in a strop because she wanted a fish pie from Aldi and I asked if she could have one from the Co-op because we were walking past. Then she threw her walking stick on the floor and said she wished she were dead. Now I’ll feel like shit for the rest of the day and get nothing done. I hear constantly about how all her friends are taken out by their daughters all the time even though I have to take her on every dog walk.

If it was a personality change I think I’d cope with it better, but it isn’t. The doctors won’t assess her without consent and she’s adamant that she isn’t confused 😐

@CharlotteLucas3 huge amount of sympathy for you. I am fortunate I don’t live with my mother but completely understand that comment that it is not a personality change it is simply how she is. Living a distance from our mother I can take time to step away. You must try and give yourself time. As for the ‘so and so’s son/daughter does xyz for Mrs A N Other’ I get that all the time and always have. I remind my mother that 1) you came away on holiday with us - you ruined it. 2) I have taken you ‘out for lunch’ you didn’t like the place/the food/the company 3) | have cleaned your house for you - it ‘wasn’t up to your standards’ 4) I have bought shopping for you - literally nothing purchased was ‘any good’. 5) I have done washing for you as selectively you have decided you cannot/won’t use the washing machine - apparently ‘everything’ shrunk/fell apart. 6) We have tried to engage her in local things to alleviate boredom - she won’t engage/won’t try and distract herself with hobbies such as gardening/reading etc. In fact she point blank refuses to do anything to help her situation other than moan. She is someone I think who would be labelled as having opposition defiance disorder if she was a school aged child. BUT she has always been like this and we have ALL been complicit in tolerating her ways. So sympathy for you by the skip load - trust me from this forum there are a lot of these gems of mothers about.

I would reduce the calls and do some work (it will be hard) on emotionally detaching from the comments and not trying to solve it for her. She may have got into a habit - so her comments are someone else's comments about the weather or she may mean it, You can't stop what she says but you can reduce how many times you hear it . You can't control what she says but you can control your reaction to it. I now counter moans with oh that sounds rubbish what are you going to do about it - to the moans about feeling ill. Or a nuclear option if you think she's serious or want to give her a wake up call is to ring the police/social services as it's a safeguarding concern - or tell her you are going to. This does irk me as I was/am treated as a counsellor by my parent since being a very small child and it's so bloody cruel.

It sounds like you are her sounding board for her imagined misery.
Getting old, not living a ‘normal’ life, knowing you’ve only a few years left can be depressing, obviously, but this bringing you down is not on.
’Look Mum, I’m sorry you’re unhappy but your constant negativity is spoiling my life too.
I will phone twice a week and call round once as my visits do not make either of us happy.’

and do it. She needs a sharp wake up call. Also she might be less inclined to be so miserable going forward.

I visit elderly people all the time as part of my job and most are miserable living with chronic conditions and not being able to do the things they used to enjoy doing. They all tell me ' getting old is no fun etc'. Most are supported by lovely family, have care provided, many still able to go out but still miserable. I do meet some optimistic ones but not many ! It makes me feel depressed ! I guess oyu just have to try to see things from her point of view. there's probably not much to look forward to.

@Scarletrogue excellent advice however @CharlotteLucas3 actually lives with her mother. Sadly negative people like her mother and mine actually don’t care how anyone else feels they are the only ones that matter. It is easy to come up with ‘solutions’ but they don’t want that. Our mother for example can’t/won’t shop for food - we suggested a delivery - no to that. We filled the freezer with excellent choices - she won’t use food from the freezer. We took food round a few times a week - not good enough. We cooked - it was ‘revolting’. Excuse after excuse. I have posted this before but there are some excellent phrases used on the outofthefog.website. One is ‘selective competence’ the other is ‘terminally unique’. https://outofthefog.website

Agree wind back on the calls. Can you go away for a few days to set a precedent, and also get a break?

I was replying to the Op

She won’t change op. So you have to. I think you need to take a tougher line frankly - don’t call as often, say no to things, etc. I think you need to step back, take a break, and not be so at her beck-and-call for your own healths sake. If you won’t do that or feel you can’t, that’s fine and up to you - but things are going to stay the same. I’m really sorry you are going through this.

@Scarletrogue apologies I clocked that after posting 🙄

Well, stop calling twice every day, for a start! Could you aim at scaling it back to, say, twice a week?
You don't have to do any of this, and you deserve to have a good life - without your mother ruining it.

It is very difficult as they get very old. My mother, now 93, has always been a very social person. She and another lady friend used to go out every day of the week, line dancing, tap dancing sequence dancing took care of at least 3 days. They were in a ladies club on another day and were enthusiastic shoppers as I the days were always taken up. Sadly her friend died during COVID, many of the day time activities didn't restart and although she still drives in the daytime, she is getting frailer now so inevitably she has more days at home. However she still goes to one weekly club and one sit down exercise club. She goes out to lunch with a friend once a week brother and her son both usually call in once a week as well. She comes to me for Sunday lunch every week. I do most of her shopping, some of her washing and go with her to hospital/hearing/eye appointments although she does drive herself to her doctors. I also ring her once every day. Not a bad life for a 93 year old you might think. Oh she also has a visiting hairdresser and a cleaner once a week. Plenty company?? No. If she has a day when no one's visited I get the complaints about how lonely life is for her. What she really wants is for someone ...me ...to be available on days she hasn't got anyone else coming ...even though I look after her very well every Sunday and always take her with me to any family birthdays ext. My DD has always invited her to anything special going on at her place as well. I have invited her to the cinema/theatre when I go with DD but it's nothing she wants to see. One problem is that although dB visits her every week, he doesn't take her anywhere so I hear about that as well 😱 This is not something I can do anything about. Like others I hear how great other people's daughters are. So ...what have I learnt from all this??? I sympathise on lonely days but don't try offering solutions.Sonwtimes there aren't any. I never complain to dB that he could do more. I can't dictate other people's choices and I won't jepodise my relationship with him in an attempt to make my choices his choices. I take an interest in and talk positively about the things she does do and in her meetings with friends ext. Most importantly ...I keep in mind that I care ...but I am not her carer. So far she doesn't need one but she often says she will never go into a home or have carers. I am kind but firm; masking what she will do if that time comes. I reiterate what I can do and I don't apologise for what I already know I'm not prepared to do. You are a good daughter op but I think you will need to decide on your own boundaries going forward. Mine are different to others including dB ...and that is ok. Your will be different to others daughters your mother hears about. Be kind ...but don't be swayed or manipulated by what she says others do. Often it's not the full story. I spoke to one of my mothers nieces about how much my mother admired all she did for her DM. Nice laughed and said there's no way she does anywhere near as much as me ...according to her mother. 😁 Sorry for really long Ng post. Good luck going forward op. 💐