Narcisstic Mother and Dementia

[Lastknownaddress]

I am possibly coming on here just to quietly scream into Internet ether, or just to process what is happening. Either way I would appreciate any shared experiences or advice.

My M is an out and out narcissist with well known and professionally diagnosed personality traits although at the time was not formally diagnosed as a narcissist per se (this was decades and decades ago and diagnoses were less formalised but she was seeing a psychiatrist at one point).

She is deeply unpleasant and as I was growing up and beyond I desperately tried to compensate. Anyway roll forward 30 years and we have been NC or v LC for over a decade. Life has been much much better since.

However we live close by. Her choice. Not mine. We moved to the village first and went low contact. She decided to move to be near us. 🙄

Through sheer determination and sticking firmly to my boundaries we have managed to co exist, and for the large part for myself and my family to ignore her. And it has been OK but this is largely down to being very determined not to get sucked back into her orbit.

But.

NM is now in her early 80s. Getting more and more frail, and clearly starting to struggle with life. More relevant though is she can no longer mask to outside world what a vile person she is. Over the past year we have been hearing more and more rumblings in our local are of how NMs behaviour is manifesting itself and this week several neighbours contacted us to ask us to step in. And then today one of her friends contacted us out of the blue, to say that she could no longer support NM and it wasn't sustainable for her to be there for her. To clarify it sounds like this friend had been stepping in, doing shopping etc etc. But we didn't even these two individuals knew each other we have been managing the boundaries so carefully.

There is clearly a growing expectation that myself and DH will step in. But the truth is, because of NMs diagnosed personality disorder, she would never accept our help even if we were on speaking terms. Let alone the stress, anxiety and distress it would cause to break our boundaries and provide more support. Equally, it is hugely distressing watching her decline and be so utterly awful to everyone around her. It is like wanting a normal relationship with my mother (although I know logically it will never be, but the emotional pull is strong) and supporting her in her old age, and also knowing what I would be letting myself in for and needing to protect myself and family.

It feels going through all the pain of having to come to terms with her behaviour and making the decision to go NC in the first place.

If anyone has been through anything similar I would love to know your coping mechanisms and how managed the final years. This isn't going to be a quick process and we don't live far enough away to ignore it completely.

If you made it this far... thank you!

You need to cut these people out OP. Your DC are your top priority even if your mother had been a wonderful mum.

Sounds hellish OP. Try and cut out the ‘noise’ from family - they don’t have all the facts so don’t take their calls. If they want to be guilted into stepping in then that’s their problem to worry about- let them.

If your NM has deteriorated and has a history of pulling knives out when stressed she could end up in a secure facility under a section.

(relatives) started throwing it back at me. Cue a long and difficult week where I have been told as her only daughter I am fully and legally responsible for NMs actions, welfare and future care

Sorry OP, I knew this would happen, when you first mentioned it, I immediately thought “oh no” this is the beginning of you being pulled back in.

It’s not your problem. She can get help from social services if she wants it. Narcissists are usually pretty good at getting their needs met.

If you get involved you again at her age you will get stuck in it, that’s the reality. Much harder to extract yourself.

When you say 'family' who is it that pressures you? And do you actually like them/want to be in touch with them in the long run?

It sounds like you have close supportive relationships with a DH, DF, PILs and your own DCs. Which is both a lot of love and a lot of responsibility.

Do you even need the other family? I think you should block them.

Sounds like they are related to your M & equally have issues.

Block, saying it's with the Social Workers now, then do something to distract yourself.

I know it's very difficult tho, the grief for a normal relationship.

Grey rock the relatives.

"Feel free to step in if it's so easy to be there for DM"

Oh, I just read your update.

Your mother will be getting professional help, which is what she needs anyway.

Agree with everything g @Brombat said.

Honestly fuck the rest of your family. Who gives a shit what they think. They saw a child being abused and didn’t step in to help you, and they’re not supporting you now. They just don’t want to be bothered with this stuff. Block them. Well done for holding your ground

I'm sorry you are going through this. It's really hard. You have every right not to step in and care for her.
I have been through similar. My mums neighbours harassing me about "doing something about her" when my mum doesn't listen to a single word I say and has threatened to kill me. She has capacity.
I told that to them and they kept saying "no she doesn't" like that's something they could just decide.
What exactly am I supposed to do with her? I can't force her to do anything. She's been deemed to have capacity by the GP.
Yet I'm under pressure to waste my time and mental health on going and trying to talk her into accepting care.

I feel for you. It's really shit.

Just refuse contact with the wider family and hold the lind with social care. They are only contacting the rest of family members because they have to explore every option I think. I would also tell SC you have blocked them and why.

its shit I know. I’m involved with my DM after being non contact because I wanted to help my sister who was doing everything and stressed out. Now I’m enmeshed again.

Op you alerted the relevant services so you have met your obligations as a child.

What do your wider family bring to your life? Would you consider going no contact with them too?

I have a misogynistic family too. I'm the daughter so I should step up when parents need woman's work help. My mother emotionally abused me and neglected me. I have got her shopping when she's been sick and would do the odd thing like move furniture for her. But I thought long and hard and I know I will refuse to do personal care for her I won't clean or cook. Maybe I would take her to appointments but I won't be asked to do that as driving isn't woman's work so my brother will be asked. I know one day my mother will need more care and my family will all fall out as you describe yours has. I don't care. She fucked my early life up and left me with trauma that led me to fucking up many more years of my life. I didn't know healthy relationship ls so ended up married to an abuser. I owe her nothing beyond making sure she has food and alerting the relevant people when she can't care for herself. If my family fall out with me over it fuck them too. They never acknowledged what mother put me through or were part of the problem so it won't be any loss to have to cut them out when they try guilt tripping me.

Does not sound like your wider family are a positive part of your life. Can you see them being a positive part of your life once your mother is gone? Is it worth taking this shit now to save those future relationships? You said you felt gas light when they denied the letter and you say they deny your mother had mental health issues. They sound emotionally bad for you.

Social services have the other family members contact info. You don't need to be a middle man. You don't need contact with them. You don't need to do anything. Just tell social services it's become too unhealthy for you to need to coordinate with wider family and that you won't be doing it going forward. Tell your family the same thing and if they don't respect that it's not unreasonable to block them

@Lastknownaddress I think you are still influenced by your training, your upbringing, to mask the shameful situation.

Awful those it is, and painful though it will feel at first, it’s absolutely ok to reply to these people…

—don’t be silly. She‘d hate my being involved! She’s abused me my whole life, made it clear I don’t have her permission to talk to the GP, she doesn’t want me involved in her care. It’s very sad, but As you know she’s a terrible woman who drives everyone away. I wish things were different but they aren’t. There’s no way I can help. And also, I don’t want her pulling a knife on me again. Obviously.

What they are doing is so ridiculous you can tell them so, bluntly.

And when you’ve finished explaining all that a couple of times, block them all.

Stop trying to look respectable, do the minimum that’s acceptable, pass muster as a daughter. The shame here is hers. And theirs. Not yours. You don’t need to hide any of this anymore.

As others have said block anyone who starts in on you one by one as the circumstances arise.

If they come to your home do not let them in. The police will remove them if you contact them.

Referral to social services and continue to be at arms length.

Anyone choosing to put up with her and then loading you with guilt is to be politely told to feel free to do what works for themselves and you are quite capable and happy to decide how you choose to respond to the situation.

Repeat ad Infinitum.

When social service/GP/hospital/districtnurse/pharmacist/Bob's cousins ex wife remove by two further marriages attempt to guilt trip you into assuming responsibility, repeat you're quite ok with how you've chosen to deal.

I'm dealing with a couple of different elderly person situations.

It might makes you feel better that I'm in a similar situation (person unaware they are ill tho) & all the parties involved are assisting but clear care will need to be delivered by professionals. Social worker is sorting it out with help from the CMHT.

So the outcome is exactly the same for the person who needs the care, with a lot less mudslinging & guilt.

So don't beat yourself up.

Interestingly, the only person making comments that I should do more is my other old person, who thinks all the work should be done by daughters or dil.

Sorting the situation is still caring, it's picking the best way to deliver it that is key.

Honestly, I'm surprised you are still in contact with your harassers. They seem to be showing you again and again that they don't see you as a person, they only see you as a facility.

You are handling the situation in an effective and compassionate way, which is more than your NM deserves from you.

Thank you @Brombat I needed to hear this.

And thank you to everyone else. Wasn't expecting the volume of responses tbh.

I am no angel. There are times when I wish I handled difficult situations with M as best as possible and sometimes that makes the guilt worse.

Anyway, head well and truly wobbled by Mumsnet (thank you) and after long discussions with DH we have agreed to grey rock again.

For those of you pointing out how much I have been sucked in again, you are absolutely right. I have been so good over the past few years but this feels particularly hard right now. I need to focus on what matters most, and these guys have made it abundantly clear that unless I am doing something which actively improves their lives I am utterly irrelevant.

I can't remember who mentions it above too, but yes my chosen family are wonderful. I count myself the lucky one and have to pinch myself sometimes. If you'd asked 14 year old me what life would look like in middle age, I wouldn't have imagined it was ever as lovely as it is now.

Thanks again everyone. Much needed.

Oh sorry, and one more thing - to those of you going through it because you are female... solidarity. The societal pressure is immense even without any family dynamics to contend with!

Shine light on the situation, it really helps. The one thing I've noticed (as I'm not slow at sharing my current challenges) is the number of women who say they're in a similar position and also struggling to manage.

I would prepare a short "elevator pitch" for whoever is giving you hassle and then deliver it and leave them to it. They might be assuaging their own guilt or just actively wanting someone else to do the work.

I would also contact your local Carer's Trust and just have a chat, as even if you grey rock, it helps with processing to externalise things and hearing about how the services work and can help.

Is it possible your Mum has made out that she's had far more contact with you over the years than she actually has, and that's why they're expecting you to step in now?

You've had really good advice upthread about what to say.

Block anyone being abusive. Although, as you probably realise, it's more difficult to block people on a mobile than you think. If you block their calls they can still leave a voicemail, turn off voicemail (mine has been off for years now!) and you get a notification they've attempted to call.

Can you block the main offenders who are railing at you @Lastknownaddress and have a prepared pitch for any flying monkeys they send in? Ie “in 2016 I explained to C that because of NM past behaviour I was not prepared to care for her/step in etc. C has not respected that and has recently berated me (insert screenshot) and so I will not be communicating with them again” ? Almost a cut and paste that can be sent to whoever needs it…

You mentioned being willing to be the appropriate person to be in discussions regarding her future and best interests.

You don't even have to do that - there are IMCA's for that. And the local authority gave a legal duty to use Ind if your mum's mental capacity is gone jd there's no appropriate person to advocate for her. . You don't have to do it