Mum's Will

[PrinceEggward]

My Mum is in her eighties and finally made her will a few years ago (after quite a bit of nagging from me and my sister). My sister said that she did it with the help of the manager of her retirement property. I've never seen the will and when I asked my Mum, she said anything left would be split 50/50 between me and my sister. Last year I said to my sister I had never seen the will and she just said, "Oh, haven't you?"

Fast forward to now, my Mum was diagnosed with dementia last year and is now in a care home. She's still with it but can't organise herself so I am currently sorting out all her paperwork and finances.

I've just stumbled across her will. Bar a couple of charity legacies, everything will be split 50/50. However, should me or my sister pre-decease my Mum then that daughter's share will be divided as follows.

Sister
10% to Sister's DH
30% to Sister's Child A
30% to Sister's Child B
30% to Sister's Child B

PrinceEggward
20% to Prince Eggward's DH
80% to Sister

Although we don't have children and I'm not planning to pop my clogs any time soon I feel really upset and angry about this. At the time the will was written, I know that my Mum wouldn't have had the wherewithall to decide these figures. I am also sceptical that a third party would have suggested this and my Mum would have agreed without one of us double checking it. I can only conclude that my sister had a hand in it and conveniently failed to discuss it with me or ensure I got a copy of the will.

I'm so disappointed that my sister thought this was okay. Other than seethe, I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that there is nothing I can do. The last year or so has been horrid. I always thought I had a good relationship with my sister but have seen a very different side to her that I really don't like. This is almost the icing on the cake.

Does anyone have any words of wisdom that might make me feel a bit better?

I think it’s quite well thought out. If you die she specifically wants to make an allowance for your dh (which is lovely!) but wants to ensure the bulk of her estate goes to her direct dependents - which it will do via your sisters dc eventually.
If you predeceases her then her estate can be directed away from her dgc to, bluntly, your DHs second wife and her dc.
I don’t think it’s that weird or unusual or warrants delicate discussion. Presumably your sister thought your mum had told you. I’m not sure why you think it’s so cloak and dagger.

I think this will makes good sense. Not many people would want to leave money to their son in law rather than their daughter and grandchildren. Obviously they could have mentioned it, but honestly does that really matter?

i understand your feelings OP, especially as you are now doing all the legwork to sort through your DM’s paperwork and her affairs.

Could you drop it briefly and breezily into a conversation with your sister sometime, keep it short, and just see where the conversation leads?

”Oh Mum’s will turned up when I was sorting through the paperwork”…..
and then say nothing.
If your DS replies, you can follow with “I was surprised to see the percentages and suggested distributions, wasn’t DM ill at the time and would she have had the foresight to organise things in this way?” “i find it a bit puzzling” ….and then say nothing.

At least you might get your DS to admit her involvement, she might talk about her influence on the document and her involvement. At least it might give you some insight.

I think it is her because it is so bloody random. DH thought it was odd when I showed him. It's quite specific in who gets what. Who would advise my Mum to do that? As I said previously, I am very doubtful that my Mum would have come up with that herself and I'm doubtful that the manager of her retirement flats who supposedly helped her with the will would have advised that without suggesting she take legal advice.

I have no idea who drew the will up or if it's a WH Smith jobby.

If the shoe had been on the other foot. I would have flagged it up to her and asked her if she was aware because I don't tend to keep secrets and like things to be fair.

"In general", but obviously not if your actual child predeceases you, leaving orphan grandchildren. That would be mad, so of course English law doesn't let you accidentally disinherit your grandchildren - it's covered by Section 33 of the Wills Act 1837, which has been covering this situation for nearly 200 years now.

I'm not sure that is the default position

If there is no will then the inheritance tumbles down the generations. If someone has 3 children, A ,B and C - A and B have children and C doesn’t - A predeceases the parent - A’s dc get 1/3, B gets 1/3, C gets 1/3 - B’s dc get nothing. Nobody’s husband gets anything either. If C predeceases the willmaker then A and B would get their share C’s husband doesn’t come into it.

If there is a will it is usual to specify what will happen if someone predeceases the willmaker - split between their dc is standard, if no dc then split between the other beneficiaries is completely normal and not worthy of note. The fact that your mum hasn’t done that but has specificity made provision for your dh is a good thing. If your ds was being an evil manipulator then your DHs 20% would be long gone. If there was no will then your sis would be better off (if you die)

What is it you find random? The bequests to the sons in law?

The bit about equal shares to your sister’s children if she dies first and yours to her if you die is entirely normal.

It’s basically following the rules of intestacy with an additional bequest to the sons in law.

Thank you, the first person who seems to get it! I am doing the bulk of sorting paperwork, finances and a hundred and one other things as my sister just seems to have given up.

I was going to mention it to my Mum and see what she says. On good days, I can get still get some sense out of her.

My relationship with my sister is somewhat strained at the moment so it's unlikely I will broach it with her. It's unlikely that I'll be able to do anything about it anyway.

Just feeling very disillusioned at the moment.

From what you've said, it does sound questionable whether your DM had full understanding of the details of the will.

But you'd have nothing whatsoever to gain by pushing the matter: if you decided to push for its invalidity then the inheritance situation from your POV would be exactly the same but you/she would have to manage the estate under intestacy instead of probate which is a more involved process.

It's not random, it's perfectly sensible. With out without a will, in the normal scheme of things, cif a daughter died, her share wouldn't go to her husband, it would go to her siblings. In this case it's been ensured that your DH at least gets something.
My MIL was alive when my DH died. Her will was supposed to spilt her estate between DH and SIL. But when she died my DH's share went to his sister, because that's how it works. However, SIL spoke to me about it and said that she was going to split the whole estate between her two adult kids and mine. Which was kind of her.

But it's your mum's money and in that situation she's rather it went to her grandchildren than her son in law. That is also perfectly understandable.

If a lawyer was advising your mum when making her will, they'd likely suggestv what she did.

You are massively overreacting, imo. Don't let this come between you and your sister.

You need to read the next couple of paragraphs in your own link.

If there was no will your sister’s share would pass to her children if she died before your mum. This is what happened when my uncle died without a will. My mum, his sister, inherited half and my deceased aunt’s children received her share. Your husband wouldn’t get anything. Your mum has very thoughtfully provided for him and your sister too if you think she had a say in this.

It’s basically following the rules of intestacy with an additional bequest to the sons in law.

Exactly. I really don't understand what you think is devious or unfair, @PrinceEggward . As this stands, your DH comes out better than he normally would in this scenario.

I think it is very thoughtful to leave your DH something should you die before your DM.

You do realise that your DM is not obligated to give your DH anything. Also if you die before DH all your joint assets and your possible insurance payouts go to him.

It is normal for inheritance to go to blood relatives not their spouses.

You have absolutely no proof, or grounds to suspect, that your DSis knew about the will or influenced it.

And the will is perfectly reasonable.

Had your DSis happened to see it there was hardly much of note to report. It’s 50/50 as your Mum said.

Wills, elderly frail parents, dementia: all so upsetting.

But if you carry on like this you risk ruining your last years with your Mum and your reality your sister.

UABVU to expect your DH should inherit xx% of your mother's estate.
How much is his DM or DF leaving you ? Do you know - and if not why not?

If your sister tried to influence it then she didn’t do a very good job tbh…

She and her children are getting, in the scenarios you mentioned, exactly what they would if there was no will, but her husband will get less than yours if widowed.

The mother and sister said it's 50:50 because it is. Your mum will have been advised to cover all eventualities though, which is absolutely sensible. It's highly unlikely that either of her children will pre-decease her, but it's wise to leave instructions in case.

If your mother hadn't stipulated this in the will @PrinceEggward , if your sister died, mum's grandchildren would get nothing. You'd get the lot.

It's absolutely natural for a grandmother to want to ensure that her grandchildren are provided for in her will, in the event of their mother's death. It doesn't matter how well off their dad is, she'll want them to have their mum's share of if her estate.

Can you really not see this?

I generally agree but your middle paragraph is incorrect. If DSis died before DM then DSis's children would inherit her share unless the will explicitly said otherwise. It's a specific piece of legislation.

Happy to be corrected on that. Thank you.

You are making a huge assumption your sister had anything to do with this ( very reasonable ) will…
if she did meddle, then actually she’s being very kind to your dh in leaving him 20 pct instead of her getting it all if you predecease your mum..
my sIL died young unfortunately and my pil have said they are leaving her son her share of their estate in the future, as expected by everybody else in the family.
I guess you don’t like your sister very much that you immediately think the worse of her? Do you really not value your relationship with her at all

Do you think this is part of a pattern of secrecy and excluding you? I can imagine that if your relationship with your sister was in good shape this will clause would barely have registered - after all, it is incredibly unlikely to be relevant.

But you're feeling that you're being landed with a big burden of distressing work and decisions, without support? That's not good.

Do you think it's worth trying to have a big row and clear the air? I'm not myself someone who would EVER choose that. Experience suggests that breaches around care of parents can become permanent extremely easily. But maybe it's worth just trying to say to your sister how alone you are feeling with all this and how much small things are distressing you as a result.

@PrinceEggward I totally get where your coming from, it's the secrecy. My dad told me for over 40 years his will is 3 way split to us kids, hoping one of us (me) will take care of mum. The will is held by his solicitor who is also the executor.
So imagine how upset I was to find out by accident in 2022 that his solicitor retired in 2010 and that my 2 siblings were then made executors, everyone knew except me for 12 years. He was all tears and devastated to be found out and wanted to put things right, I said don't bother, its not about the will, it's about the dishonesty and secrecy, that can't be undone.
Edited: I no longer feel obligated to be available and sort stuff out anymore, which is a relief, my parents were always manipulative.

So you would expect your mother to leave her money to your husband, a non blood relative rather than than her own daughter?

Yes, sort of. It's not so much secrecy but more a case of not caring to include me or communicate things. I married later and don't have children. As such, I've always had to fit in with everyone else's wishes. If I ever queried anything I was always seen as the difficult one so I've generally kept quiet about things.

My Mum lives near my sister and historically they have always had a closer relationship. Although I've done quite a bit for my Mum with paperwork and finances I've always been lead to believe (by my sister) that she's been there for my Mum but I've realised over the year or so that it's just not the case. A couple of years ago, my Mum said that she might have a caring job but it was a bit of a joke as she's not caring at all. i wasn't sure what she meant at the time so just shrugged it off. Now I understand what she means.

We're at a stage now where everything is on my shoulders as my sister is doing pretty much nothing. She lives down the road but has checked on my Mum's flat once since it's been empty. There's been no contribution to sorting out paperwork, finances, taking clothes in for my Mum, sewing name labels in her clothes or anything. Things that she was supposed to help with have not materialised and I've just ended up doing them myself. I've given up asking now. Unless it fits in with her social life or directly benefits my sister, she doesn't bother.

I acknowledge that the will is generous to DH if I die before my DM. The fact that I jumped to the conclusion says it all really. Previous posters telling me I'm overreacting and sound like I hate my sister also haven't helped.

So sorry to hear that. That sounds really tough.