What happens when people don't really have anyone?

[DancingLions]

I'm very LC with my mum, my only sister has very recently gone NC with her (long back story). Our dad died years ago, no other family around. However both sister and I do have POA, which my mum set up not long ago.

So my mum rang me last night (first time in years!), mainly to complain about my sister not speaking to her! But a few alarm bells rang for me. She was getting names wrong of people she knew well, repeating herself a lot. Main concern is from what I can gather, some men were going to do some work on her roof and drove her to the cashpoint to get money out. It took a while to get the full story. But she says she doesn't know why she got in the van with them and that it was almost like they "hypnotised" her. Obviously no work has been done on her roof! I asked had she reported it to the police. She says a friend is going with her to do that. I also said she should go to the GP and she said she has and needs to have some sort of scan. Couldn't get much more out of her on that. But it looks like they'd be looking for signs of dementia?

Now to the point. I'm prepared to carry out the legal aspects of the POA but when it comes to any kind of care, well I'm not doing it. I don't live near her (sister is even further away) so we couldn't just "pop in" anyway. We both work full time. We're both struggling to make ends meet so we wouldn't be giving any financial support. So I'm wondering what will happen? What does happen to people who don't have someone to ferry them around to appointments, help them out etc?

I always wondered this..when I helped my DF who I had been NC for a number of years the social worker who was helping move him into a care home told him numerous times that he was lucky to have me and that some people dont have anyone.

I wouldnt trust SS to do anything much. They are always looking for a relative to take on the burden (and I dont use that word lightly).

I suspect what happens is that the elderly person muddles on through until a crisis occurs or a serious fall (falls seem to be a trigger). Then an ambulance is called if that person is even found in time. My DH had a care alarm that had long since disappeared in the chaos he lived in. DM had a alarm but didnt use it and had a fall. Then the hospital looks around for a relative to take over - if there isnt anyone then I believe SS will take over but they dont like to. It costs ££££ and its a big decision to decide whether the elderly person is well enough to go home with care (or wants care) or whether they need to go into a care home with all that that entails - selling the house if owned, clearing it. Sorting out person's finances.

I did all of this for both parents with POA and its a BIG job but my parents were at a stage where they agreed that I take over. They didnt argue with me or question anything very much thank goodness and I did the best I could and in their interests. They had some money which makes things much easier.

If you have someone that is unsafe on their own but refuses to move or do anything proactive it causes real issues until the next crisis.

There's a lot to think about. I really only want minimum involvement, which I know sounds harsh but that's how things are. I don't know what my sister will do. It took her years of putting up with my mums abuse before she went NC. But, if there's a serious issue I think her sense of guilt may come to the surface. (Not that I think she should feel guilty but she does). But at the same time, she lives at the other end of the country and can't realistically drop everything. And no way in the world would/could my mum go to her. I guess all I can do for now is play it by ear.

This worries me for myself too. I'm nearly 60, single and without children. I have no nieces or nephews. I'm wondering even who I can ask to be atorneys for me. I'm doing all my mum's day to day financial stuff now and it isn't trivial. My closest friends are my age or older and I think it needs someone younger. I do have some younger friends but not sure that it would be fair to even ask them.

It does sound like your mum has been scammed. I think you can contact adult social services and say you think your mum is vulnerable and needs assessing for support and/or dementia. That's if your mum would be willing to engage with them. I think you just have to be honest with social services about her being abusive and you being low contact "I'm willing to do x, but not y"

Do you have just the financial poa or the health and welfare one too?

I would phone Age Concern and ask their advice.

If you want minimal involvement, I'd suggest you signpost her to services who can help - as you've done with the police and GP suggestions.
Tell her she can try Age UK, they offer advice and support, and can help her organise suitable care. If you're worried you can also contact SS for adults/elderly and ask them for a visit and assessment.
I have a parent I'm pretty much NC with and I'd probably be similar to you in not taking responsibility or bending over backwards. He's brought it on himself by the way he treats people and he doesn't care at all how much damage he's done. He'll have to sort himself out, unless other family members want to jump in. I don't really want to get involved.

If you have POA - I assume both types - then you have taken on a commitment to manage things for her/help her make decisions that are in her best interests. But it doesn’t mean you have to take her to the GP or rush to her side every time she falls or have her live with you.

So yes, I’d say take it as it comes. But if she does have dementia life will be a lot easier if you find out as much as possible about her wishes for her future and her finances now.

My next door neighbour had nobody at all to care for him. There was a neice who turned up as soon as he died to go through the house to find any valuables and his will but she didn't do anything.

We arranged hospital transport to take him to appointments. As soon as that happened he a social worker was assigned to him but he refused to engage.

He collapsed at home, an ambulance was called, he went to hospital and from there into a care home where he died. We visited for a while and at no stage did anyone try to make his niece do anything for him.

I fully understand where you are coming from, I too have a very complicated lc relationship with my mum. I do however think we should take responsibility and make arrangements as much as practically possible and not rely on the state. Social services is short on resources and is a provision for those without children/siblings/nieces and nephews to make suitable arrangements. There is not enough funding or provision for those who have family to rely on their services too. I’m not saying move her in/visit daily etc. but phone regularly, see what’s required and what services are available in her area- some areas have schemes of volunteers who will drive to appointments, so some shopping etc, look into meals on wheels, delivered prescriptions too.

I think I'd be reluctant to phone SS as I think she would be really angry and so she'd probably refuse to cooperate anyway. She hasn't taken kindly to it in the past when I've made suggestions or offered advice along those lines.

I believe the POA does also cover health/welfare. Age concern/Age UK is a good idea.

Financially, she owns a small flat, minimal savings (I think... that's what she says anyway). Income is just state pension and other benefits. She's never worked so no other pension. So I guess majority of that would just go to her care, if needed.

some areas have schemes of volunteers who will drive to appointments, so some shopping etc, look into meals on wheels, delivered prescriptions too

Thanks for this. I'm ok with sorting those types of things. The kind of stuff I would do for anyone if they needed it. A few phone calls isn't onerous. So yes those are things I could do.

What generally happens is like @Tracker1234 says, the person muddles though until a crisis. They either get admitted to hospital due to a fall or illness or neighbours call SS about a welfare check. It is found the person is in a deep crisis. Then SS go about finding some family/ friend to take on the burden.

I would find out as much as you can regarding the possible dementia. I would also research volunteer support services and formal support services in her area. For example: there is a volunteer scheme in our area which does transport to hospital appointments, shopping, prescription runs, befriending ect. One of our pharmacys have a delivery service. A few of the local churches have social meals once a month which is well attended - the volunteer service actually offers pick up and drop off to these events. There is a local lady on our facebook who does home cooked meals that arrive hot (like the old meals on wheels) and she is very popular. It's likely some of these exist in your mums area.

It's likely that she may need carers at some point, especially as you and your sister are both far away and lc. It's worth having a look at carers in your mum's area and what caring agencies work in the area. Ultimately, if your mum does have dementia, its likely she will need a care home somewhere down the line. Its worth thinking about options and finding out which ones take dementia patients and what waiting lists are like.

They muddle through til a crisis happens and then social services takes over. It happens all the time, don't be guilted into getting involved.

what happened in my experience is that an attempt was made to evict the relative, but the bailiffs didn't follow though as they were not sure he understood the proceedings, so the eviction was put on hold while an assessment of capacity was carried out, but as he refused to agree to the assessment, he could not be declared lacking in capacity, and he was sent home alone, and a few days later wandered off in his pyjamas, got lost on a cold rainy night and dies of exposure

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5073593-to-think-that-an-assessment-for-mental-capacity-should-not-rely-on-cooperation?page=2&reply=135618129

You do what i do. I have a 30 min care call in the mornings and a hot lunch and sandwich tea delivered. My meds are delivered once a week and i have a cleaner weekly as well.
Appointments i use patient transport and i have a mobile hairdresser, beautician and chiropodist.
Cost, is a huge factor though.
It takes most of my benefits.

That works as long as you are fit and able enough to organise it. My dad had PSP and significant dementia as well as being physically disabled. He could not have organised these things for himself. When he was in hospital they couldn't even arrange his meds to be given at the right time because it didn't fit the standard meds trolly times and he couldn't ask for them himself.

They manage in their own.

Until someone notices and makes a judgement that they are managing sufficiently badly for social services to take over.

This is usually in a full on medical crisis as anything less will not be considered bad enough.

the person muddles though until a crisis.

This with mix of LC relatives and good neighbours - but DH uncle did get solen from from a young man who'd befriended him that got FIL involved - who was LC - everyone else much to FIL disgust stepped further back - then health collapse so hospital and then social worker and FIL with MIL in background have sorted care home.

FIL pretty good at his own boundaries - though guilt tripping rest of family had no effect - and while he's moaned about social worker I think they were one of the better ones and understood family weren't stepping in.

Interesting thread @DancingLions My siblings and I are in contact with our Mum, but might as well not be. She refuses to engage with any ‘help’ we point her towards and there has been tonnes of it. Dad is in a nursing home but Mum is not happy with this even though neither of them listened to any suggestions to mean he might have avoided the inevitable fall that led to us having to take this action. For as long as we can remember we have tried to get our parents to see that their home was simply not fit for the purpose of 2 elderly people one with a terminal diagnosis. There has been a great deal of support offered but everything is wrong; she wont engage; she criticises. It is exhausting. I have suggested to my siblings we step back and see what happens. The amazing thing has been that certainly from our perspective there has been access to some fantastic NHS staff really keen to help Mum. If anything Mum has made herself alone with ‘no one’ purely through poor decision making when help has been offered on a plate. Sorry if I have derailed your thread there. I suppose what I am trying to say is that there is actually quite a lot of help available- postcode lottery perhaps, but it has really been eye opening what is available. We have tried food delivery- she wont accept it or throws it away; cleaner help with garden - wont let them in; counselling- won’t even try it - especially grief/acceptance of her situation. there is help out there.

I am going to sound harsh here but they have lived their lives and are continuing to live the way they choose. Dont get swallowed up with doing things THEIR way - it will break you. You will be run ragged doing quite frankly daft and stupid things that often take way longer than it should.

I was very strict especially with Dad. He was a devil in his day, fell out with everyone, always wanted to come out of top and incredibly stingy. When I was sorting out his finances I couldnt believe how much he had hidden away and indeed he had forgotten about it too. It was all in paper form btw in a hoarders house so you can imagine how easy it was to sort out. In the end we decided that if a company wanted to find us they would. I had post redirected to me and slowly it started coming in with £3k in building societies I had never heard of!

In the end when he passed we did a financial check and only one further account was found so I think it worked well in the end but honestly it could have taken over my life (and that was only the financial part!!).

If they are fighting you just leave them to it. You can argue , persuade and organise but if they dont want it your efforts will be wasted and it will make you feel much much worse. I ended up swearing at my Mum (not my finest hour) who was just frustrating the life out of me and trying to do things the old way which resulted in me being called to sort things out by the police who found her lost in the streets and when I particularly asked her to stay in bed until the morning because she had just had a fall (and as soon as I left she decided to tidy up her remote controls in the next room!!) she then had another fall and once again I was called.

Social services will take over,but likely it will take a crisis for them to do so. An elderly lady with dementia I knew had great nephews and nieces who lived 2 hours away,but no close relatives. She had meals on wheel delivered,carers to make sure she took her medication,both organised by the relatives,and very very kind neighbours kept an eye on her,took her to appointments ect.

It got to the stage where she was forgetting to eat her meals,or she'd put them in the oven to heat up,forget them and eat them several days later. It was a miracle that she didn't make herself ill to be honest. We all tried to help as much as we could,but it was only when she landed in hospital after getting an infection,that social services took over her affairs.

They completely ballsed things up financially though, lost her will,and allowed the rent on her house to continue to be paid for 4 years after she had moved to a care home,plus also forgot to cancel the phone line for 4 years,which BT refused to refund.

Fecked - yep. SS contacted me 5 months after a very urgent referral was made for my DF. Told me the case had only just been given to them. Good thing I got. a solicitor involved because DF was in a lot of danger.

Thanks for all the advice, it is helpful. I think for now I will see how it goes. Maybe look up some services in her area that I can pass onto her. There's a lot of unknowns at the moment.

After an aunt died in her care home, I was asked to leave all her clothes, since they had residents with very little money and no relatives to buy them anything. They even wanted her old, faded, but still wearable, nighties. In her dementia section of the home, I don’t suppose anyone was going to care about a 2nd hand nightie - I know that by a certain stage of dementia my formerly very fastidious and stylish mother simply didn’t give a toss what she wore.

IIRC the amount people were allowed to keep from their state pension (assuming no other income) for expenses - clothes, shoes, toiletries, haircuts etc., was £23.50 a week. I don’t know what it is now.

I would just add that it was a really lovely care home that evidently took council-funded residents as well as self-funders, like my aunt.

This is similar to my situation, except not dementia. I have POA but I'm LC and live too far away/work full time so can't do anything practical. I'm not getting over-involved with a parent who couldn't be bothered with me when I was younger.

That was her decision as she chose to live in that location. I don't get involved in anything day to day and just signpost to things like social services or Age U.K. for things like a handyman. Or hospital transport.

Ultimately she'll probably end up in a home earlier than someone who had a younger female relative to run around facilitating carer visits but I don't think that's a bad thing.