Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Elderly parents

Mum ill in care home. Residents keep coming in and won't go away

56 replies

Mxflamingnoravera · 04/06/2024 21:43

M sitting with my 86 year old mum in her care home. She has a chest infection. She is asleep. Other residents keep coming in and won't leave. Staff are struggling to get them out.
They've got them out now, but I'm scared to leave her because they are going through her stuff and keep coming back.
I need to go to pick up her emergency prescription.
There's no lock on her door so I can't lock it with us both in it.
It's a dementia care unit. What do I do? I'm wishing I'd said yes to hospital admission now when I spoke to a Dr from the emergency card team.
I've never been here at night. I'd be terrified if it were me sick in bed and people kept wandering in and out.

OP posts:
Hairyfairy01 · 05/06/2024 08:28

Mxflamingnoravera · 04/06/2024 23:59

I didn't go to mcds I couldn't bring myself to drive out of my way for a cheeseburger I wouldn't enjoy.
I'm finally home eating a chicken sandwich made by me with the glass of red wine mum and I had chatted about in the moments she was awake.

I toyed with not bothering with the script after missing Tesco, only momentarily, I wouldn't have forgiven myself if she'd died of this infection.

I'm going to call in late to work tomorrow. I need to chill for a bit before bed. What a mad night.

From what you've all said I don't think there's much can be done about the sundowners crowding in. I don't know what a complaint to management would do. The staff are really doing their best in the most difficult circumstances. They are so kind and lovely, the last thing I want is for them to face a complaint. I'd rather bring them flowers and chocolates for the care and hard work they do.

I just wanted to say a huge thank you for your understanding of how tough being a care worker can be, people are doing their best but it's not easy. And also that you seem like a lovely, caring person. I hope your mum is ok.

SheepAndSword · 05/06/2024 13:28

That sounds absolutely exhausting. You did really well in a difficult situation. It doesn't sound like reasoning would have done any good with the wandering residents!

StopStartStop · 05/06/2024 13:30

edited because you've moved on. Well done for making progress there.

ildaogden · 05/06/2024 13:39

My mum was in a nursing home, they put an alarm sensor pad in the doorway to her room which alerted staff if someone stood on it.
Her wedding ring was stolen off her finger, please don't leave anything of value with your mum.
I hope she gets better soon x

I8toys · 05/06/2024 16:14

ildaogden · 05/06/2024 13:39

My mum was in a nursing home, they put an alarm sensor pad in the doorway to her room which alerted staff if someone stood on it.
Her wedding ring was stolen off her finger, please don't leave anything of value with your mum.
I hope she gets better soon x

That's shocking. My Mil does complain that people take stuff but I just thought it was a symptom of her dementia and it wasn't real. I need to check her supplies. For £2,000 a week I would want her not to be bothered if she was ill and for them to keep others out of the room.

LilianaVikavanovich · 05/06/2024 16:20

We had a stair gate put on Dads door ( he was bed bound with dementia )
we just climbed over it , luckily the residents who wandered around couldn’t do that

hope your mum is comfortable now @Mxflamingnoravera

Mxflamingnoravera · 05/06/2024 18:50

Mum is much improved today. Out of bed, dressed and although still very sleepy and tired, seems as ok as she can be.

I got the patio door in her room open for the first time since she's lived there open today. We had a lovely hour or so together sitting in the sun in the garden which residents never seem to use.

The antibiotics clearly did their work. I can however see her entering a darker phase of her decline. Her memory has taken an even bigger nosedive and she looks pale and ill. I hate this awful slow death.

OP posts:
BinaryDot · 05/06/2024 19:22

Just a salute to your hard night Vera. It's mad when stuff like this happens. I agree with you about the carers and I haven't encountered any who don't do their best and deserve to be paid way more for what they do. DM's care home is much better than any alternative I could imagine for her at this stage. People are scared of the idea of care homes, but it's not the place that produces the sadness, it's what's going on in the bodies and minds of the residents.

My DM used to get wandering 'visitors' in her room but the usual suspects have passed on now. I imagine them pootling about in a celestial setting, opening drawers they shouldn't.

My DM is still battling Parkinson's at well over 90, and she has the cognitive decline that goes with it, now she can't swallow at all well. Like you, I see it as a long and painful journey.

Take care of yourself!

maudelovesharold · 05/06/2024 19:24

Mxflamingnoravera · 05/06/2024 18:50

Mum is much improved today. Out of bed, dressed and although still very sleepy and tired, seems as ok as she can be.

I got the patio door in her room open for the first time since she's lived there open today. We had a lovely hour or so together sitting in the sun in the garden which residents never seem to use.

The antibiotics clearly did their work. I can however see her entering a darker phase of her decline. Her memory has taken an even bigger nosedive and she looks pale and ill. I hate this awful slow death.

Yes, it really is so cruel, but I’m sure that lovely time in the sun with you will have given your Mum’s spirits a lift.

Flowers for you, op, and your Mum, and everyone in a similar situation.

Tessa92 · 08/06/2024 17:06

Dementia units in care/nursing homes are scary at night. My sisters and I stayed in my mum’s room in her last days. Carers came in every few hours to turn her and as we were sleeping on the floor we had to get up and sit on the floor in the corridor till finished. Residents were wandering around and shouting out all night but my mum was oblivious as her dementia was so advanced. This was 14 years ago now and I really wonder how we coped. We did of course as we did it for her as the least we could do. The staff were amazing - what a job for barely the minimum wage.

Loanz · 08/06/2024 19:35

Hi, I spent many years working in care and that includes care homes, I understand your issue and the frustrations it causes, in a care home that specialises in dementia or at least claims too ( in my experience its only really a couple of people that actually understand dementia, the rest are basically given 1 or 2 training videos and then left to do everything ) there are a number of issues here, often a person may believe that they are being kidnapped or something similar ( I'm putting this in a very very broad way so please stay with me here haha ) so they lock themselves into rooms believing it's for there own safety, it's rare that a care home has locks these days however you should have a lock on the outside, this is incase a person keeps themselves in there room and it becomes a safety issue or a health issue, the doors should have latches aswell to open in both directions, although most staff would be unaware of this other than the fire marshal that day ( at the start of shift a fire Marshall should be allocated who is appropriately trained ) care homes are dictated by the CQC and it is illegal to lock a patient in there room at any time, locking them out is a different story, lots of paper work and other procedures I won't bore you with ) but if staff lock a door with a person inside then the home can be in a lot of trouble usually resulting in fines and loss of jobs, so yeh, can't be done, a good practise is label everything with a name, care homes often sow names onto clothing due to residents walking and taking clothing. You can't restrain anyone in a care home generally speaking and staff arnt trained to do it, even if they were trained in a mental health facility, they couldn't use restraints in a care home, all they can do is redirect people useing distraction techniques and verbal prompts. So yeh, label everything, use sticky labels if you have too and record everything she has, the care home should have done the recording already but I bet its not done properly, if it is, it's a very very good home. Give staff a copy of what you've recorded, and when your there do a check, if something is missing then ask staff to find it, you CAN, get a lock box for jewelry and things, I would advise to get one, they are little boxes and godliness. Remeber you can't take something away from a person they would have normally, same with something that is there human right to have, that's called DOLS and to explain that here would take a lot more explaining haha. so providing your family member has retained capacity they have a right to hold the key with them for any lockbox. If you went to a carehome and properly, you would see so many things that could be classed as abuse, for example, it's institutional abuse to make everyone get out of bed and have breakfast at a specific time just because that's the rules, however every care home I've worked out the staff have to get everyone out of bed, washed and dressed between 730 and 830 in time for meds and breakfast, of they miss that or refuse to get up, they are pressured into getting out of bed and often told theve missed breakfast, which is the very definition of institutional abuse, but the home will always say its not..but remeber, the staff there are likely on minimum wage or close to it, probably have 13 hour shifts, havnt really had a break that day, they won't finish on time, probably cleaned someone every time they soiled themselves and then told off for being behind, the home won't have enough staff and working on a bare minimum, often being forced to use agency staff that don't know the residents at all due to keep to what's known as safe staffing levels which is a legal requirement however it isn't really enough to do everything, so often, they won't have time to watch every resident at all times, even though that's what the care home advertises, it simply isn't true other wise you would have 24 residents and 26 floor staff ( 2 to cover breaks ) care homes are a money making buisness, hence why they charge 1000's weekly but pay minimum wage, I would also reccomend setting a meeting with your key worker to resolve the issues or put something in the care plan to mitigate risks, something that you agree is suitable. If its in the care plan, it has to be followed, care plans are legal documents. Hope this helps and sorry for the long winded answer, any other questions feel free to ask and I will do what I can to advice, if you want to know my credentials, ba hons health and social care, and was a registered manager for a number of years before having to stop work due to genetic illnesses

rusty1066 · 08/06/2024 19:51

If your mum had own home you could get a live in carer, cheaper than a care home. I have worked with dementia clients for over 30 years. You can always put in a good care package. As for homes they are a nightmare staff try and do there best but are allocated minutes per patient.

NamingConundrum · 08/06/2024 20:00

I think a lot are missing the dementia aspect. This doesn't happen on non- dementia areas. It's very normal when dealing with dementia.

I remember visiting my grandma. On several occasions I went to her room and there was someone else in her bed, in her shower etc. Several times she was found in another residents room. Every time they insisted they're in their room, it's their stuff. They stole everything from eachother. There's no malice in it, to them they're genuinely convinced it's theirs. Easy to find the funny side when they're not unwell but I appreciate why it's tough for OP in this instance.

My grandma was on end of life and we had one resident that used to be a firefighter insist on coming in as he'd been employed to check everything up to spec. He did this often to pretty much every room in the place, walk around asking people to make notes. We were used to him doing it so it was a little comedic relief but if you weren't it could have felt intrusive.

They don't have the staff to post someone on the door and stop every wayward resident from entering her room. Its not 1-1, hell its not even 1-5 ratio.

Helengreggregson · 08/06/2024 21:38

Op I’m so sorry to hear this. I work in healthcare and have worked in care homes. I understand it is difficult for the staff but this is not acceptable and the staff need to manage this and allow your mother the privacy she needs. I would suggest escalating to the manager asap.

Happyholidays78 · 08/06/2024 21:48

Social Worker here. Stair gate's/stable doors are most definitely allowed in care homes. I see them fairly often. There has to be a capacity & best interest process e.g if mum does not have the ability or understanding to consent to the stairgate then a discussion with family/the care home needs to take place. If mum has the capacity to consent she can decide. Is mum mobile? This is important as care homes are not able to restrict her. Also risk assessments need to be done. I'm rambling now but they can & are used.

Mxflamingnoravera · 08/06/2024 22:01

Yes, I've got used to the fact that people wander in and out of each other's rooms now. But this was the first time I'd been there at a time when it was happening en masse. Three residents all crowding in and three staff and me and mum. It was rammed in there.

She's much better now (re the chest infection) but clearly the dementia is no better.

There's no way she can be cared for at home. She has no home and there is no way I can have her at my home, I simply could not manage the stress. This is the third home she's been in and care wise it's by far the best. The staff all speak English and genuinely care about the residents. They do struggle with some of the residents, the ones that are aggressive and sweary in particular (and mum had a spell like that when she would try to find her car and demand her keys but that was three years ago, now she lives totally in the moment.

I had a lovely chat with one of the care workers on Tuesday night. She said that she thinks mum must have been a lovely teacher and she told me that mum thinks the other residents are children she on a school residential with so staff have developed a routine at night where they tell her all the children are asleep and safe and they've phoned all the parents so she's free to get some rest herself. That sounds like person based care to me. She said mum and one other are the only two that don't swear or get violent. They showed me scratches on their arms where residents had lashed out and I just had so much admiration for them.

I think I'd encountered the sundowners looking for some action on Tuesday night.

I'm really grateful for the suggestions and support from you all. As I said, moving her to be cared for alone (with carers) is not an option, mum is gregarious and needs people around her.

I just have to accept that this is going to happen more as she succumbs to more infections and it will probably be an infection such as pneumonia that will finally take her. For now she is back in her delusional world of being a teacher on a school skiing trip staying in a hostel and I'm happy to play along with that.

OP posts:
Saytheyhear · 08/06/2024 22:05

It is an awful reality in the UK that dementia units are extremely scary places. Patients are not in control of their own minds so violence of all kinds are not unheard of. The alternative is that patients relatives are to care for them in their own home but this is often an equally vulnerable and elderly spouse which is just so unrealistic.

Some homes support respite at home. So family can take residents home for weekends if they can provide care for the few days. Others support residents relatives staying overnight, particularly during the last few days etc.

Discuss the options, see if there is a way to pay for a private 1.2.1 carer in addition to her current care package. Just to give you peace of mind at night.

Mxflamingnoravera · 08/06/2024 22:09

I will ask about having a stairgate for use only if she is ill in bed. She is mobile and is up and moving around normally, at least as normal as she can manage, she has the dementia shuffle now and her legs are swollen and her knees hurt, she uses a frame sometimes but mostly refuses assistance and waddles around.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 08/06/2024 22:10

yumyumyumy · 04/06/2024 22:05

This is outrageous. The staff need to be keeping these strangers out!

Absolutely agree. It sounds very badly run.

Shan5474 · 08/06/2024 22:10

I found my relative would end up with other people’s things in her room while hers would go missing. Mainly unimportant things like jumpers or lipstick, I think it’s just what happens as it’s hard for staff to know who owns what when someone takes a shine to it.
Unfortunately with dementia every illness and infection will likely bring about a decline in cognitive abilities, this was what I was told by a doctor who assessed my relative in the home. Perhaps someone on MN can explain why. It is a horrible illness but your DM is in the best place to be cared for. I found the care home staff caring and cheerful even though they have a tough job

LadyLindaT · 08/06/2024 22:15

From my experience, everything gets stolen in a care home. Care homes will not admit any liability. My mother's belongings, her engagement ring and wedding ring were all stolen.

Shan5474 · 08/06/2024 22:17

NamingConundrum · 08/06/2024 20:00

I think a lot are missing the dementia aspect. This doesn't happen on non- dementia areas. It's very normal when dealing with dementia.

I remember visiting my grandma. On several occasions I went to her room and there was someone else in her bed, in her shower etc. Several times she was found in another residents room. Every time they insisted they're in their room, it's their stuff. They stole everything from eachother. There's no malice in it, to them they're genuinely convinced it's theirs. Easy to find the funny side when they're not unwell but I appreciate why it's tough for OP in this instance.

My grandma was on end of life and we had one resident that used to be a firefighter insist on coming in as he'd been employed to check everything up to spec. He did this often to pretty much every room in the place, walk around asking people to make notes. We were used to him doing it so it was a little comedic relief but if you weren't it could have felt intrusive.

They don't have the staff to post someone on the door and stop every wayward resident from entering her room. Its not 1-1, hell its not even 1-5 ratio.

Edited

I agree with this, the home my relative was in was not cheap at all but there could not be enough staff to man every room or corridor. Patients can’t be locked in their rooms, it’s not a prison and it would distress them even further. Most were not violent or malicious, just confused and in their own world. The fact is that the relatives probably care more about this than some of the residents who may do their own wandering and pilfering sometimes too

Mxflamingnoravera · 08/06/2024 22:21

@Viviennemary it is just not possible to prevent residents from wandering around their unit. They are constrained enough by their DOLS orders, I think unless you have a relative in a care home that it is hard to imagine the day to day reality.

Everything, even spectacles have to be labelled and even a label doesn't stop mum being adamant that the specs she's wearing are hers even with a label saying they belong to Mary Smith not Mrsflamjngnora.

I'm not in the least angry with the home, I was just overwhelmed on Tuesday when I really thought she might die.

OP posts:
Mxflamingnoravera · 08/06/2024 22:27

A couple of weeks ago all mums shoes had disappeared. I had to go round the lounge looking at everyone's feet to see if I could see who was wearing them. Shoes are apparently a magnet to people with dementia!

Mum never removes her rings, there's is nothing else of any value in her room, it's sentimental stuff but not valuable. It disappears and just as mysteriously, it reappears. I frequently pile up stuff that doesn't belong to mum and take it to the office. So I think she's as guilty of the delusion that something is hers as the others.

OP posts:
Nicole1111 · 08/06/2024 22:45

You are a lovely daughter and it sounds like the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Wishing your mum a speedy recovery.