My mum in hospital, not sure if this is the end or not

[MarmaladeSunset]

I live several hours travel away from my parents. My mum has been taken to hospital either last night or this morning (I was told at lunch time today so am not 100% sure) with a heart rate that was going very high then very low.

I've travelled to the hospital and sent my dad home to get some sleep as he only had 4 hours last night.

My dad says dr asked about do not resuscitate wishes, and a different dr mentioned being prepared for the worst just in case, but also that it might not happen. That's all the info I have.

My mum is in and out of what looks to be dozing, coming to and saying things, some of which are perfectly lucid and make sense, and some of which don't.

She's in a bay in A&E waiting for a bed on a ward. My dad will come back at 7am after a sleep so I'm here for the night now. I don't know what I'm asking for with this thread as can't think straight, maybe just for other people's experiences of the end, so I can start to work out if this is the end or not.

Presumably some people can take months to die, and others hours or days or weeks? I realise I have no idea.

One minute she's talking to me quite normally, the next she's drifted away again, or she's asking 'is Nana here' (Nana died over 10 years ago).

Sorry your mum is ill.

Hard to answer your question without knowing any other details medically. An infection can affect heart rate and cause confusion and be quite easy to treat.

However, I am sure there are other causes possible too

Hope she improves

She's in a bay in A&E waiting for a bed on a ward.

That sounds like they've completed their emergency examinations - can someone there give you a diagnosis?

Very sorry you are going through this, OP. It's so difficult.

Thanks for replies. That's interesting about the infection. I suspect I won't get a diagnosis until tomorrow. I arrived this evening and the day shift had gone off, and my dad left very tired, and I stupidly didn't ask for a diagnosis. All I have is what he told me that her heart rate kept going high then low.

Hopefully will know more tomorrow. Don't know why I'm posting really, I'm not quite with it myself, just trying to process it all and take it in and cope with sitting in an A&E bay all night!

Just wanted to send strength to you, your Mum and Dad at such a hard time x

My mum had heart problems like that. We did many blue light Ambulance trips to resus at A&E. They’d get her heart rate calm then send her home. This went on for a couple of years. Eventually I argued to get her a specialist appointment, and she was given a pacemaker aged 78. Her heart has been perfect ever since. (Unfortunately she now has other issues from when the oxygen wasn’t getting around her system properly. But that’s another story). I just wanted to point out that it isn’t necessarily the end. And they seem to ask about DNR for anyone quite poorly and elderly. Fingers crossed for you all.

One thing I learned with both my parents is that they could be desperately ill and frail in hospital, to the point that obviously I was hoping upon hope they'd be ok but at the same time I couldn't see how they could recover. But they did. My mum spent 4 months in hospital with an 30% chance of survival but that was 3 years ago and now she's bombing around on her mobility scooter and is as sharp as a tack, as ever. I am full of awe for both the medical profession and the ability of humans to recover. I hope she's ok.

I am sorry you are going through this. I have just been through it. Eventually, they will give you a diagnosis and tell you what to expect and what decisions to make. I only say "eventually" because this is likely to be in the morning once a few things have had a chance to work, doctors are available, and of course you probably really wish to know now. They may move her to a ward in the night. Others are right, it could be an infection and with the right treatment, it could be fought off (we had this a couple of times). They will tell you if there is no hope, and then there are difficult decisions to be made, but for now, hang on in there, it is going to be a long worrying night, and the only thing you can do is hunker down and try and get some sleep if you can. Sending hugs and best wishes xx

Sorry you're going through this, I've been there and know how scary it is. I was wondering about infection too, given the confusion you mentioned. They are likely to have checked for infection, they will be able to tell you. I'd ask the night staff if there is anything they can update you.
As PP said, the DNAR question is standard, it doesn't necessarily mean they think it will be needed anytime soon, but it's too late to be asking if the situation arises. I do know how you're feeling, it's such a worry .

Thanks so much for all replies, all are enormously helpful and appreciated. A nurse has just been in, offered and brought tea. I explained that I got here late and don't really know what's wrong with my mum and she said she'd get the dr to come and talk to me at some point.

I feel a lot better reading your replies, thank you again.

I am sorry to hear what you and your family are going through. Everyone's different so it's hard to predict what might happen. A consultant told me that my mum was dying, then he said it all depends on..... with which he pointed to the sky. She pulled through that time. It can seem a bit surreal. You should know more once you speak to the doctor. Hope you manage to get some rest.

Have been through with both elderly parents. Its so hard, you rush round there, you want to know what to expect but they dont always know and I hope I am allowed to say this - sometimes they seem to pride themselves on keeping a very elderly person going even though the quality of life isnt great or the person wants to pass (my Mum).

It does sound like an infection and people become completely different saying things they wouldnt normally say. Mum had a memory test and it was truly heart breaking listening to the answers which bore no relationship to her normal life. Afterwards I asked her how she thought it went bearing in mind she got 90% of the answers wrong and she thought it went well....

Both parents had a DNR and in Mum's case she wasnt going to survive anything like that. Also - I had a call from 'someone' from the GP's surgery who talked me through active treatments and although you are tempted to say give them everything I found the whole conversation very sensible. I had POA and tried to think what the parent would want. In the end her body just shut down. She wasnt eating for weeks and lost a lot of her body weight and we sort of knew it was close. Goodness knows how but she wasnt in pain (I asked her) and I suspect they had given her something.

Both parents had a few infections over the years and once the antibiotics kick in they will feel and become much better. With my Father they did tell me he wouldnt last the night and in fact he lived for another few days probably because he wanted to prove the Doctors wrong.

Just to give you all an update if anyone's interested, she was much better this morning, still not right, but improved. She's been moved on to a normal ward and will be having various heart tests for 24 hours so they can understand what's going on. With her heart rates now after improvements the cardio expert said she needed monitoring but the current numbers and patterns were nothing to fear. So fingers crossed she'll be with us for a while longer yet. Thanks again for your support.

Very happy to read this, i hope they can work out what's going on soon x Take care of yourself too - it's tiring!

Glad things have settled. If she is well, stable, mobile etc try to get her home as soon as you can. Elderly people decline frighteningly quickly in hospital if they are stuck in a bed, poor food, infection risk.

It’s a bit risky as taking her home too quickly could just end up with her declining again and it’s back to hospital. Talk honestly to the staff about getting her home and whether you can manage her there. Would you be able to stay with them for a while?

Thank you so much for letting us know, OP.
So pleased that she is improved. Hope that once they work out what led to the episode they'll be able to provide interventions that avoid it in future.

😊

@Daffidale good points re getting her out.

It's a very complicated situation. She's already quite disabled since a stroke in her 40s. As she's got older her mobility has worsened and she needs a full time carer (my dad)

She had a fall earlier this month and was in a rehabilitation hospital with two bone breaks. She was allowed medically to go home but wasn't able to go home because my parents are in the middle of packing up to move house (to more suitable accommodation) and there's no space for the hospital bed and hoist she needs following the fall. She then had the heart problems and got transferred.

Once the tests are complete we'll know more about whether she needs to stay in the main hospital or return to the rehabilitation hospital before the move.

It's so unlucky that she fell just before the packing and moving.

I hope she is well enough to get into her new home at some point.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but we found that nurses rather than doctors appear to ‘know’ when it truly is ‘the end’. That’s when the patient gets moved to the private side room. Doctors, under GMC rules, are required to administer all therapy to prolong life. This is where you need knowledge of the signs of dying and courage to make decisions about continued treatments - it is possible to keep on and on giving antibiotics, for example, but at some point this makes end of life VERY distressing for your loved one.

Doctors, under GMC rules, are required to administer all therapy to prolong life.

What is meant by 'all therapy' @HFJ ? Do you have a link to this? It can't mean all interventions else DNAR wouldn't exist. We were also advised by a doctor against intensive care. Would like to understand what 'all therapy' means . Thanks.

I suspect if you have agreed to a DNR that will be fine for the medical staff. However having gone through this sort of thing with both parents its a tricky and controversial one.

After seeing the suffering my DF went through at the end I was determined that the same thing didnt happen to Mum. What I did notice in the many many conversations I had with medical staff is that Doctors in particular pride themselves in many cases that they prolong life - not everyone of course but it was everywhere. I even heard a Dr talking to a collegue about saving a 99 year old man when I passed them in the corridor. Obviously have no details about this but we honestly do need a grown up conversation about prolonging life for some people.

There comes a point when it's kinder to let them go peacefully rather than subject them to further intervention that will result in a poorer quality of life. Hence wanting to understand this 'must administer all therapy' comment as every doctor I have spoken to over the last few years (and there have been a lot! ) have been anti prolonging life at all costs and pro letting them go in peace and with dignity.

Doctors prolong life? Have you got the link please

I'm going to start a new thread about my mum as this thread's title no longer represents the current situation.