Inlaws retired abroad, starting to face difficulties

[Anycrispsleft]

About 20 years ago PIL retired to Eastern Europe. At the time it made a lot of sense - they still had a big mortgage on their old house but when they sold up, the equity was enough to pay for a very nice house, albeit a bit out of the way in a small village.
Now 20 years later, things are still good for now but they are probably going to start struggling in the next couple of years. FIL is not in the best of health, he can't walk far and I suspect he is not going to be able to keep his driving license for much longer either (I don't know if there are medical issues related to this, I just picked up the impression from some of his comments that he is currently coming to terms with stopping driving). There is no shop in the village - it closed a couple of years ago - MIL can't drive, she told me there is a bus she can use, but it's a new service for pensioners and no guarantee it will last - there is no regular public transport to their village. They do have some friends in the village and they could afford there to pay for a home help. They don't speak the local language but many people speak a bit of theirs.

I get the strong impression that MIL would come back to her home country (where we and her other son and his family live) but FIL is quite defensive about the move (the political situation started to worsen soon after they got there and the tide of foreign pensioners started to turn about 5 years ago, many of their friends there have come back) and every visit it comes up as a sore point - he knows DH thinks they should go back, and they always end up arguing about the politics. Because of that (and I guess it is a sensitive issue anyway, and probably none of my business really but MIL has been good to me and I wouldn't like to leave her in a bad situation) it is hard to broach the subject even to ask if there is anything we could help with.

I don't really know what I want from this post, sorry - it's not really any of my business directly, but I worry about them and how they are going to cope if FIL really can't drive any more or if MIL's health deteriorates. Has anyone else got parents or inlaws who retired abroad, did they eventually have to come back or what happened?

Someone needs to have a few honest conversations about they’re plans for the future. In my experience either older people are sensible and make plans or completely bury their heads in the sand until something bad happens.

Different locations but I could have written this. Maybe yours will have a talk about what happens in future, mine won't. Mine have decided it will just be fine and won't consider any issues. That's fine for now but it will blow up one day. When it does, there's a limited amount I can do to pick up the pieces.

OP, have you seen the thread "I blame Escape to the Country" about DPs who retire to rural parts of the UK? Some of the comments might be useful. I'd be inclined to encourage your DH to have an honest conversation with his parents. If you can't or don't want to be flying over there to help when a crisis happens, tell them that and stick to it.

What would you all feel if your PILs moved to a city in the same country - ie take the politics and national feeling out of it and just think about some of the practicalities? I have to say, 20 years is a long time - that's their home.

I do in general think with older people there's something to be said for not dealing with problems that haven't happened yet. We tried to do that with DM and she was just unhappy. There's a balance to be struck between sensible planning and shutting down the life you want long before they need to.

I would try not to worry about this. They made the decision to leave which means you are unable to help them out. If they decide to come back, that would be the point to stick your oar in and discuss being close to shops, yourselves, etc. They are grown adults and moving would be a huge upheaval, it has to come from them.

What is the healthcare and social care like in the country they're in? Can they afford it? How old are they?

My parents live abroad. They moved house from a rural village a bit like you describe to the main town about 3 years ago in order to mitigate the impact of getting old and being isolated.
I was pretty unhappy with the idea of the move as they had a lovely house with garden and swimming pool etc but actually now they've moved to a bungalow with small garden I can see it's so much easier for them to manage. They don't need to worry about access to shops etc as they can walk to places although they both can still drive. They do both speak the local language mind you.

So rather than moving back to UK could they consider moving to a suitable alternative where they are?

there's a balance to be struck between sensible planning and shutting down the life you want long before they need to.. Yes, this.

My parents have done the same, and blew every penny they made from selling their home. (That's not me wanting money/inheritance) No thoughts to the future. They now live in the back end of beyond, absolutely no idea how they will manage in the near future.

This is the major downside of retiring abroad and it's amazing how few pensioners seem to think about the next stage of life - the one where health frequently fails and help is required - when they merrily sell up and head off to sunnier climes at age 65. It's like they think it's all sunny uplands from now on and they don't need to think about the practicalities, but that's just irresponsible and stupid, quite frankly.

What can you do? Not a lot really if your FIL refuses to discuss the issue and gets defensive any time anyone raises the idea of returning to the UK. You say you want to help your MIL, but she has to help herself. She married him and went along with this idea and has presumably been happy with the choice up to now?

What could they afford if they did move back? You say they sold their old house here, got rid of their big mortgage and bought a small place in the country they're in, so what's their financial situation now? Could they afford a small house or flat near you? I think I'd maybe do some research about what happens is they do need to move back in a hurry because the health of one has taken a sudden and catastrophic turn, or one has died and the other needs to come back. Knowledge is power and all that. Age UK may be able to help?

Is labor cheaper there? Could you arrange for a retired nurse to pop in daily to help out and drive them round?

We moved to France in our mid 50s so that we could have a good amount of time here before a move back to the UK later on when we get less able to do stuff.

However the health care here is better, much better so once we can't do the things any more, we will move into a town rather than live in a village. One of my friends has done just that, after living in a rural property for 20 years.

They will have to do something, or arrange food by delivery. My neighbour has lived here her whole life, in the same house, has no mains water or heating and gets all her food and water delivered from a local epicerie each week. She gets the doctors to visit her. It is doable.

That's fine if your rural house has equal value to a house closer to town, or you have other savings. My parents are stuck in fairly remote rural territory because houses in town cost at least twice as much as in their area. They don't have that. I hope you are in a better position than that.

Also, groceries don't deliver out there, so I have no idea what they are going to do.

Yes @AlisonDonut I was thinking on similar lines. If you have access to good healthcare abroad - maybe it’s better than the UK. I am 64 and struggle to see a GP in the UK. I currently have an ongoing difficult issue that is not being resolved; I get barriers only to any medical help/investigation. I have read a couple of times eg. that it is much more straightforward to get medical help in France. Anyway I don’t have the choice to move as no assets.

I also like @PermanentTemporary’s way of looking at things that there is a balance to be struck between sensible planning and shutting down the life you want long before you need to. People joke about “A place in the country” but I can understand the appeal. After a life of hard work and stress the desire for some rural peace can be very real, though of course not realisable for many of us.

Thanks very much for all the replies. I take the point about not going forward to meet trouble - they are managing fine just now in their early 80s and MIL's family tend to live on into their 90s in good health so with a bit of luck things will continue as they are for a good long while.
It's becoming clearer to me what the potential issues are anyway - FIL will not willingly leave that house under any circumstances, so the question will be whether we would be able to arrange a home help or nurse if he once needed one, and probably yes, it's a lot cheaper than care in their home country. If FIL were to die first I wonder whether MIL would consider coming back - property here (I might as well say, it's Switzerland) is eyewateringly expensive but there would he the option to settle over the border in France or Germany but then is it even better than staying where they are? If it was me I would have come back once the grandkids started to arrive (we were all quite late in having children so the inlaws had long retired and moved before becoming grandparents) but appreciate they don't have to have the same priorities as me, plus the kids are all nearly teenagers now so they've maybe kind of missed the window for all that. MIL has always been much more involved with the kids than FIL and I do wonder if she might fancy coming back if she is widowed - I would not want to think that lack of money would stop her, we could afford to say buy a flat and let her rent it out for cheap if that was something she wanted but I suspect that if I try to interfere when the time comes I'll just piss everyone off.

Yep. We pay higher NI in France but my goodness it’s worth it .

After 20 years they still don’t speak the local language? Wow they really made no effort to integrate

To me the most worrying thing would be that they don’t speak the language fluently If they were hospitalised or needed a care home it could be difficult I think though when push comes to shove you’ll work it out.

20 years and they don’t speak the local language?!

Maybe I’ve missed the point but they haven’t even bothered to fit into life there

id tell them to get back to the uk if they want any chance of being supported in their twilight years.

@WhatWouldYouDo25 and @mintbiscuit your comments are so rude and uncalled for. Jog off. This is not a pile on or AIBU.

@JammyJays why rude? I have lived in England for 20 years and couldn’t even imagine not speaking the language.
it’s only English people that move abroad and then expect everyone else to speak English.

While I agree with you about speaking the language, the home country in this case is Switzerland so no need to bash the English

This jumped out at me too . After 20 years they haven't bothered to learn the local language . Unbelievable.

@starrynight47 well it would jump out at you on an AIBU thread where people make assumptions and look for random or tangential things to criticise and rudely berate others for - and miss the main point about which the poster is asking for help for now - in this case on behalf of her elderly parents needing support now. Elderly Parents is, however, a support board which means people try and offer ideas for support, not use belittling language to castigate people who you do not know.

I know learning languages gets harder with age, but this is probably the easiest way they can future proof their current life.(I speak as someone too lazy to learn any Slavic languages, so I feel their pain - but needs must!)

Re: living on the French side of the Swiss border, don't underestimate the difficulty of getting home helps to visit MIL. There's a massive shortage of aides à domicile here due to local CoL, as well as generally crappy working conditions in that industry. I don't want to put you off though, because it does sound like a good practical solution otherwise. (I'm assuming they are EU citizens by now?)