When should my parents downsize?

[wendyoz]

My parents: Mum 84 with mobility issues plus undiagnosed dementia, probably stage 4 and my Dad also 84 , still ressonably fit and able currently live in the 4 bed family house. It's fairly remote between villages and is unsuitable long term as both bathrooms are upstairs. Mum refuses to see a doctor as she is terrified of being 'taken into care'. They muddle along but it's becoming increasingly apparent the house/garden is too big/remote for them esp if my Dad loses his licence. Mum refuses to move or accept any kind of help ( including gardeners !) Dad does all the shopping, cleaning cooking , house/garden maintenance for a quiet life as she can get really angry/aggressive with him. He is getting overwhelmed/exhausted.
My question is, when should they downsize..before or after she (eventually) goes into care. He is worried that if he downsizes after she goes into care, he will have to start paying for her care fees immediately and will thereby not have enough money from the sale without using some of her proceeds to buy a 2 bed bungalow somewhere. But as she refuses to acknowledge there are problems, he may have little choice. They are tenants in common and have less than 25k in savings between them. The house is worth approx 550k, (275k each) a 2 bed bungalow would cost 350k. Would it be prudent to try and downsize before her inevitable move into care? It's further complicated by the fact they are in the UK, and I am their only child, based in Australia. I have tried researching it on Age Concern but haven't found a clear answer. Any advice, gratefully received. Thank you.

Wendyoz good luck with it.... it's difficult with stubborn parents. Please keep us updated x sending the biggest virtual hug x

Having the LPA is very good.

Unfortunately the answer to 'when to downsize' is almost always '10 years ago'.

Re care home funding: while your dad lives in the house it will be disregarded for care fees; if they move now, the new house will come under the same rules. If your mum goes into care and your dad moves, half the sale price of the house will be counted as her assets for funding calculations. If she has capacity at that point, she can allocate part of her share to her husband to ensure he is able to buy a suitable house, without it counting as deprivation of assets - but I've not been able to find out who judges 'suitable', or whether this can be done on her behalf by someone with LPA if she doesn't have capacity (I suspect not).

@backinthebox there is a lot that the OP CAN do from Oz. The internet is a wonderful tool for research. 50-60% of what I do for my parent is done of an evening on my laptop. Many systems are digital (which many older people hate) but it does make things more accessible for relatives. In my experience, relatives use distance as their convenient excuse not to expend any mental energy and maintain emotional distance. You sound @wendyoz willing and able to help within the parameters that you have. Do what you can.

My father is in a home that the Council will fund. The staff are caring, the manager hands-on, and he is very happy there. There will be people on this thread whose parents will be LA funded or who will be facing this prospect themselves. Don’t scare them unnecessarily.

what paying gives you is choice. But good does not equate to expensive, and there are less expensive homes that people enter willingly and not by force.

That’s ideal from the point of view of today’s situation but not ideal necessarily for their quality of life at the time. That is the difficulty, do we enjoy our active years, or do we sacrifice them to our old age?

The time to downsize is when you are fit and well and fully capable.

From what you've said it's too late for your parents, so don't stress yourself out about that.

What I would look at is persuading your DPs to make adaptations to the house so it is more suitable for them long term.

This is something I’ve heard elsewhere. So if there was a possibility of going this route, he would need advice from a solicitor specialising in elderly people. https://lifetimelawyers.org.uk/

The more experience I have of elderly parents and DHs health issues the harder I find it to work out where the best place to live is. DH had a suspected stroke a few weeks ago but there isn't a stroke unit at our nearest large hospital (county town pop 173k), or the next nearest. The nearest stroke units are an hour away on a good day with a complex trip via public transport for visiting. Similarly ILs lived a 5 minute drive from a very large regional hospital with a good bus service. But when FIL had cancer his treatment was at another hospital 50 minutes in off peak traffic down the M1 and M25 that was impossible by public transport. And DF had to go a long way to Cambridge twice a month for treatment (also near impossible by public transport) instead of his nearest hospital.
I've come to the conclusion you might as well live somewhere you like.

Mid 60s isn’t old!! Most people are still working. They sound like they are having fun.

That’s exactly what I meant by ‘forced into a home that the council will fund’ ie it was not a choice. I did not mean to imply that all homes that councils will fund are poor nor that all expensive self funded places are great.

Are you serious? Mid 60s isn't old, and I think it's really insulting to have suggested to your in laws that they should downsize.

I'm 66 and my husband is 69. I'm still working almost full time. We have a five bedroom house and a large garden, and the thought of us needing to downsize has never crossed my mind. We have talked about moving out of London in the future when I'm no longer working, but we certainly wouldn't be looking at buying a smaller house.

I most certainly don't consider myself, or my husband, to be elderly. Our garden is better now than it ever has been, and the house is probably at its best in the 35 years we've lived here because my husband has the time to spend on maintenance and decorating now that he doesn't work. I can't imagine how insulted I would feel if our daughter suggested that we should downsize because we've reached our 60s!

I'm 66 and my husband is 69. I'm still working almost full time. We have a five bedroom house and a large garden, and the thought of us needing to downsize has never crossed my mind. We have talked about moving out of London in the future when I'm no longer working, but we certainly wouldn't be looking at buying a smaller house

69 here, was working up to 67 and thinking about going back to work, even if its part time. Granted, I have a one bedroom flat, so downsizing would be tricky. Winding down isn't on the cards for a few years yet. But this in MN, where some people are convinced that over 50 is elderly, doddery and on the way out.

I'm 65. We are planning to down size next year but only because our house is large and thatched and we don't want the maintenance costs/hassle going forward. Downsized will still be a detached house with decent sized rooms, can't stand cramped spaces. The cash released will definitely fund travel, nice meals out and our very active hobbies.

We did the same - moved when I was mid 60's. We wanted to be nearer our daughter anyway - so sold a rural 17th century cottage with a large garden and orchard and bought a modern four bed detached on a main road near all the facilities and public transport into the nearest city. And most importantly about 30 minutes away from our daughter. It's working well and I couldn't be happier. At our old place I always felt that the garden was ever so slightly out of control, whereas this garden is easy to maintain. Everyone's different but now I'm the other side of 70 I can see how health issues can begin to creep in, and I'm glad we did it then.

Even on an emergency placement when it depends on an available place, the Council will try to give a choice. It's just not as wide a choice. I still wouldn't say "forced into a home".

I think it makes sense to have access to railway station, bank hub/post office, doctor, dentist, foot care specialist (since reaching toenails gets difficult), solicitor, vet if relevant, and to get used to on-line shopping (though useful to have a shoe shop nearby and somewhere when you run out of milk).

@MereDintofPandiculation nice to see someone mentioning bank hubs. Roll out is part of my job

OP, I would definitely move them at 84.
If moving hastens the end, then that's very sad but genuinely once dementia takes hold her quality of life is hugely diminished.
Truthfully, being able to shower and remain mobile with at least some of her possessions around is a risk worth taking.
DMil was a prisoner in her upstairs for 18 months from 86.

The time to downsize is I think in your early 70's at the latest. Packing up your entire life and dealing with the disruption, the inevitable new home wrangles/refurb etc and giving away many of your life's acquired possessions is not for someone in their mid 80's.
In your position, I would focus on your options for acute care emergencies which are bound to happen and see if you can
What is your plan if your Dad passes away suddenly?
Have you identified a suitable care home if respite care is required for your mum either post acute incident or due to exhaustion with your Dad
Are there options to covert a downstairs room to a bathroom or bedroom en suite?
What resources can be lined up locally to clean, garden, keep an eye on?
If very rural, how will they arrange hospital visits and so on. Do you have family friends that can be called on in extremis. Are they up to date on your parents situation.
When can you next visit to assess for yourself?

The time to downsize is I think in your early 70's at the latest. Packing up your entire life and dealing with the disruption, the inevitable new home wrangles/refurb etc and giving away many of your life's acquired possessions is not for someone in their mid 80's. My life depends on having storage space for my activities, a big room for my music group to play in, a big garden because gardening is important to me, and because I’m used to growing my own produce including stuff I can’t easily buy. I’m not ready to limit my life yet.

I don't know the 'right' time to move, but I can tell you our experience. We helped to encourage my parents to downsize when my mum was 75 - luckily my dad (77) was still fit and loves the challenge and involvement of something like a house move, and it all happened within six months.

My mum found the experience very stressful, as we knew she would, as she has a tendency to anxiety and was beginning to have memory problems. However, the arguments in favour seemed so obvious - the old house was much bigger than they needed, mum couldn't manage the garden any more, she wanted to stop driving but no amenities in the village, and they had a dreadful relationship with most of their neighbours (due to an old dispute). Mum used to constantly complain and say she wanted to move into the (lovely) local town.

Now though - I don't know. Dad's really pleased that they moved, but mum is miserable. She misses her old house and village desperately, and totally downplays all the reasons why they moved in the first place (I should have kept driving (she shouldn't!!) the neighbours weren't all that bad, etc). Her cognitive decline has got far worse, which she attributes to the move (and I agree it could have played a part). She's thoroughly depressed, and what's more she bitterly resents us all for making her move.

I honestly don't know now whether it was the right decision, in spite of the fact that we found them the apparently perfect house in the perfect location. I know she might have been just as miserable if she'd stayed (I suspect she would) - but now she's not only miserable but it's All Our Fault.

After dealing with my elderly parents who refused to move to a more user friendly home - no downstairs loo, narrow stairs, step up to kitchen, step down to lounge, too big to keep clean as mum just didn’t see dust and cobwebs - they both ended up in a care home due to falls and inability to cope.

Unfortunately, they have both passed away but while dealing with their estate, my DH and I both decided although not to downsize, move to a bungalow.

Mu
and dad should have done this years ago, but were stubborn and I get that they loved their house, it was stunning, but not suitable for their age.

Do it now whist it can be done in a planned way not in a crisis.

he falls and breaks his hip and they are both up a creek without a paddle ….

does anyone have LPOA for either ? Not clear if mum has capacity to set it up but dad really should. Another now before crisis thing.

as long as the remnants in common thing is long standing ( I don’t know how long it needs to be ..) then he will only ever need to pay “ her “ money for her care.

A user friendly home doesn’t guarantee no falls. They’d have probably ended up in a care home anyway. My dad could fall over while standing in the middle of a room. He never fell on the stairs

You can't force them to move.
We were delighted when - about 10 years ago when DPs in their 70s - they bought an additional property of a small 2 bed apartment near the hospital. Thought they had it all planned out and meant to downsize from their 4 bed detached property in the outskirts , when the time came.
But no it was for renting out only, DF says their own property is small enough . Thankfully they are still just about managing in their property, but their lives would be so much easier in the apartment.