Guilt From Setting Boundaries

[Charliesunnysky10]

You know that thing about setting boundaries to protect yourself?
My dad is 80, widowed for the last 25 years, and we lost my sister to CF when I was 4 and she was 6.
Stress and anxiety have always played a greater or lesser part in his life, and the last 4 years, very much so. He is also paranoid and judgemental. These traits make him isolated and more dependant on me, as my love and attention is guaranteed and unconditional. However, he takes this for granted and has been rude and manipulating for the past few months to a point where I dread having him over for the weekly Sunday lunch (we stopped going out as he was rude to serving staff at my birthday meal). I reached breaking point 2 weeks ago as my 16 year old daughter had gone on the pill and become very hormonal, switching from spiky to tearful, older son is worryingly lonely, bored and drinking alone. I just felt like there were too many moving parts, too much going on at once and I needed a break from dad, in order to manage what was right in front of me. But it's a terrible guilt, having no contact, even though I feel much better with him out of my life. He's had a tough life and doesnt have the tools to fix his attitude and behaviour. I don't even want to text him, because I'm worried I'll get a terse or insulting message back, which will upset me. I feel caught between a rock and a hard place.
I'm not sure I've even set boundaries - I've just cut off contact because his behaviour is draining.
Has anyone felt the same? What would you advise please?

Sounds hard and it certainly doesn't surprise me you need to put your dc first and yourself, this is OK. My DH has done the same thing with his father in mid 80's. There was no discussion, he just stopped contacting him and hasn't spoken to him in a year. He's happier, it had a v toxic effect on him, he also lost a sibling v young and another in adulthood. You need to decide are you feeling better minus the relationship.

@PTSDBarbiegirl Thank you. Made a lot of sense, reading tgat. And I'm sorry your DH has experienced this.

I feel 100% better, not having to factor in Dads moods. However, the fact that he has nobody else is pulling me down. His behaviour is a product of his upbringing and the cards life dealt him. It's not easy to move on and ignore the person who brought me up well, continued helped me and my family, but is now suffering from age related depression and anxiety (for which he refuses to seek help - tried numerous times to get him to see GP, and do self help like gratitude journsl, meditation etc). He's of that mindset that wont seek help for anything from anyone, except me. And I cant help much with it except to signpost.

Maybe very low contact would work better for you. Have you read the 'Stately homes' thread, it's v helpful. Exploring what boundaries are is something I found helpful. I am NC with some non immediate family but found it hard. I thought I understood boundaries but I didn't. I got some counselling around boundaries and how to set them.

@PTSDBarbiegirl I'll have a read - thank you! I'm glad you found things that helped.

My DM is similar. On one of my siblings died as a teen and the other a few years back - the second one had terrible mental health problems after the first one died which directly contributed to an early death.

My DM seems to have terrible problems with anxiety and I suspect has some sort of deeper rooted problem lurking in there as well. Obviously losing her children was a terrible thing to go through. But during the last bereavement, which coincided with my DF being very ill, I ran myself ragged trying to help her while she complained behind my back, sent me weird manipulative texts and, well, whole list of bad behaviour. She'd been awful the first time as well but I was stuck with her until I could leave home.

She's the same age as your DF and seems to think it's a terrible weakness to go on antidepressants or seek counselling, but doesn't seem to get that taking it out on other people isn't a sustainable solution.

I ended up with bad mental health and consequently physical health problems myself, which made me realise I had to sort things out - my kids need me to be well, and they're more important. Part of the process of getting better was boundary setting.

I also have, even for years before that, did the thing where I started ruling out activities because of her rude or weird behaviour, so can totally understand not wanting to go out.

I've now reduced contact a lot and just ignore texts if I don't want to respond to them. Would some level of contact other than none work? Weekly, fortnightly call, visit every few months, that sort of thing? Mine has been a bit better since I've stopped contacting her as much. Has he tried to contact you since you've been out of touch?

I also found counselling very helpful myself, around the same time I decided to go low contact. It helped settle things in my mind.

@Charliesunnysky10 If it’s new behaviour it can be the start of dementia. In which case his needs will escalate. Be prepared in advance as to how much or how little involvement you want in making sure he is cared for (by someone else)

@HoraceGoesBonkers Thank you! Gosh what a time of it you've had. You sound like you're in a much better place and I hope that's the case.

No, he's not contacted me at all which means he's either giving me space and/or disgusted with me.

I didnt spell out 'I'm going non contact with you because your behaviour is rude and selfish'. I told him I was burnt out and needed to rest. He was quite concerned actually. And said he had an awful cold and wouldn't be coming over anyway.

I will definately get some counselling booked - I have a lot going on and work long hours so I need to put that oxygen mask on!

He obviously loves you very much. It would be unfair just to go silent on him. I'd give yourself a week or so explaining that you don't feel well and see how it goes. Absence makes the heart grow fond and all that!

@MereDintofPandiculation I'm almost certain dementure plays a part - the paranoia in particular. It worries me he has few friends left (most have died, some live far away, and others are just as elderly as him), and no family apart from me (he's an only child too).

What he doesn't realise is the anxiety and depression spoils the time he has left, and stops him doing things that help stave off dementure, like social activity.

One of the reasons I'm wary of spending too much time with him is because he's so negative and I find it contagious. However, I dread becoming like him in 30 years and my own kids avoiding me like the plague!

He has shown very little interest in his grandchildren - never seen their school plays or club matches, dhich is such a pity. They've hardly any relationship with him. I don't want that for myself.

It's hard to comment because you don't say exactly what form his rudeness has taken (which is fair enough - you don't have to) but unless he has been utterly appalling I would not think that the right thing to do is to cut off your elderly father who loves you and has nobody else.

People on MN love "going NC", but then they tend to advise a general policy of considering only your own needs and those of your kids. It isn't necessarily a great recipe for a happy life.

You sound stressed and overwhelmed. I would take a break, and maybe look into whether you could be suffering from depression or anxiety yourself. Good luck.

What I find with elderly widowed parents is that what I have and am willing to give is never enough to make up for the people they have lost, so I just do some things. I do put myself out at times (including yesterday and today) but personally I think my primary responsibility is to my kids who I brought into the world, and who I am trying to support so they can live well for what will hopefully be long futures. so I think it’s ok to take a break and focus on your kids, you can’t give what you haven’t got to give. If you feel like you can deal with him in future is there any time when it might work better, eg Saturday morning coffee before the kids are up maybe , or Sunday afternoon tea where it’s more ok for kids to be in and out? Or something you can do with him that you’d want to do anyway , garden centre or a walk.

I also agree with pp that if anxiety and rudeness are new or much worse than before then it could be the beginning of dementia. Not being able to hear clearly is also tiring and frustrating and over 70% of people over 70 are thought to have some level of hearing loss. https://cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hearing-loss-in-adults/background-information/prevalence/
very hard if he won’t see someone about these things

I think taking a breather for oneself is good. However I don’t think it does children any harm to realise that there are other people who need their mother’s attention.
OP you are exhausted and need a break. However once you’ve recharged your batteries please don’t go NC. with your elderly father. Just make sure you get some time to yourself in addition to seeing him.

Do you have an Employee Assistance Programme available via work? They can provide access to some counselling and I've found mine a slightly random source of all sorts of information from queries about legal cover on house insurance to parenting courses!

Only you know what he's like and whether going NC is the right thing for you, so don't feel under pressure to be in contact with him if you don't want to be/can't manage it. I am LC with mine and it is a lot better now. I grew up as the child with demanding elderly relatives and my needs weren't put first which I am determined not to do for my own child.

I think it's a positive sign if your DF is being concerned and has actually left you alone. Mine gets angry and doesn't give a shit if I've ever asked for some peace when I've been ill, which has fortunately happened rarely.Sometimes I find telling her directly about a boundary works, other times not so much!You can't change people and your DF isn't going to mend his ways, at least long term. But I think it would be helpful to consider what would be a level of contact and an activity you could potentially cope with- from still meeting up, changing the type of activity you do (go for a walk, go the cinema, whatever might work; are there topics its best to avoid?), to being there in an emergency. It seems worthwhile to give some other solutions a shot before cutting him out entirely.

Thank you all for your support and help with this.

What I have discovered about MN this evening is where you post will be key to responses.

I posted on AIBU about his rudeness. I think it was called 'Tinpot Dictator'. He had been doing low-level pass-Ag stuff like when dinner wasnt ready, calling my household 'the usual chaos', which after I'd gone in work early to pick up all the shopping for the dinner, then rushed home after work to cook it, being 10 mins behind schedule because my daughter was stuck on traffic getting home from school was hardly chaos. But his world is very empty and sedate. He spends the morning in bed reading the papers then goes to the gym in the afternoon. Then watches a bit of TV in the evening.

Anyway, a sizeable chunk of the respondents said he was being petulant and I should cut him off.

I think here, you are more accustomed to the reality of the aging process. How people behave and what can reasonably be done to accomodate it. I definately need to prioritise my own wellbeing. It exesperates me that he wont consider seeing a GP about his anxiety but is regularly messaging asking for help because he needs constant support and reasurance. Then being angry and upset because we are not providing a satisfactory level of service/response time.

I had felt like threatening to withdraw all help untill he sees a GP and explains how anxious he is. But nothing about him suggests he'd go and we'd both end up regetting it if I went through with it.

I had also wondered if i could get a GP to call him and ask how he feels, but I know the NHS is overstretched and won't go looking for problems.

I will find some ways we cant get back to a more acceptable level and form of contact.

One of the reasons I'm wary of spending too much time with him is because he's so negative and I find it contagious I think you can protect yourself while still, from a distance, being concerned about an elderly man unable to look after himself (in the sense of not being able to behave in a way that will maximise his well-being). Backing off doesn’t mean you don’t care.

Yes, you can try to get his GP on board. Say how uncharacteristic this behaviour is of his previous self. They won’t be able to discuss him with you without his permission, but they may follow up.

One of the reasons I'm wary of spending too much time with him is because he's so negative and I find it contagious. However, I dread becoming like him in 30 years and my own kids avoiding me like the plague! Many people avow that they’ll never impose on their own children. But I think they’re not realising quite how much this behaviour is outside the person’s control.

I’m very conscious of being a role model. Having adult DC makes me realise how little of the decent people they have become is down to my active parenting efforts and how much has been watching DH and I and how we do things.

personally I think my primary responsibility is to my kids who I brought into the world, and who I am trying to support so they can live well for what will hopefully be long futures I feel an equal responsibility to the parents who brought me into the world and cared for me as well their different beliefs and their personal character deficiencies would allow. And at the moment DC are capable adults whereas Dad is vulnerable, frail, unable to look after himself, so he is for the moment above my DC (though below DH recovering from an operation).

But actually my first responsibility is to me and I can justify that because both DH and DDad rely on me. And those with young DC need to be at the peak of health, both physical and mental, for them

OP just to let you know the AIBU section is not called the vipers nest for nothing lol !!! Many posters on there start their threads with Hi Vipers!!!

@MereDintofPandiculation I should say a big thank you for your wisdom because I went off and did what you suggested and it was 100% beneficial for me, and also Dad.

@whatdidshedotogetahillnamedafterher Your reply made me 😁 So true!
I actually love AIBU because they push back in the most extreme ways and it does me good. I got told off once, for accepting early on that I was being unreasonable, and thanking everyone for taking time to let me know why.

For this I was told in no uncertain terms that that's NOT the way it works 😂 I need to be more abusive and then flounce off!!!