Dementia dad and driving

[PopcornPoppingInAPan]

Sorry for long post :-(

My 80 year old father has not been fit enough to drive for some time, in 2022 I reported him to DVLA and his licence was eventually revoked.

Since then he has been diagnosed with vascular dementia caused by two small strokes, not expected to get worse but he is still physically and cognitively unsafe to drive.

My father is unfortunately convinced he is safe to drive, that his licence was revoked due to an “administrative error” (I told him I’d reported him to the DVLA but he seems to have forgotten).

He keeps trying to raise it with medical professionals, wants to write to his MP about how outrageous it is. He’s obsessed with it.

While medical professionals v unlikely to support his application to get licence back their approach is always to kick the can down the road eg, “We’re waiting for further test results and need those before I can consider” or (new GP) “I will have to discuss your medical history with your usual GP.”

I understand this is probably the recommended method, because you often can’t rationalise with people with dementia and it’s better to try to distract them.

The issue is this: we have concerns that my Dad is going to get so fed up he just decides to drive anyway. He had already said “If they catch me it’s only a £1000 fine” and seems to think it’s a risk worth taking. He knows he would not be insured and that it would be illegal but doesn’t seem to care.

I’m getting slightly desperate as to what we can do. Hiding the keys may work once or twice but isn’t a permanent solution. If he does drive then yes, we can call the police, but clearly we really need to stop it getting to that point!

Does anyone have any advice please?

I’m wondering if we push the GP to tell him no, he cannot drive, and to put this in writing. That might make it harder for my dad to maintain his licence was revoked only because of an administrative error. But maybe it won’t.

The only advice I can find is again, try to distract the person but it’s just not sustainable to keep doing this, we need a more permanent approach.

I also wondered about trying to get the GP or adult social services to declare him as lacking in capacity to decide whether he can drive, but what good would that do unless we went down the full deprivation of liberty route and put him in a secure care home. (He is doing stints of respite care in a care home but I don’t think it’s a secure one).

Help, please!

It's funny what people with dementia hook onto as an obsession. My dad was just the same. We sold his car as he wasn't allowed to drive it, mum was OK to drive so she chauffeured him around. Even after his dementia had progressed, he was still asking several times a day where the car was, when they were going out in the car, where the keys were. Keys in general to be fair, even though he had no intention of going out.

Your poor mum. A letter from the GP might help, or another from the DVLA?

Could you arrange a track day, so kind of fun linked to cars to get this out of his system. Tell him one last blast with a driver and that's it, no more car.

I know it sounds utterly bonkers but it would be something I'd do and who knows.

As a pp said depending on where he is stage-wise, and what his history is like re: 'authority' a letter from the gp will do absolutely nothing at all. He'll claim its fake, a mistake, its not for him, he'll deny ever seeing it, will find it and put it in the bin......infact I'm confident I'm saying it doesn't matter where he is stage wise. He simply will not take it in.

A gp, PCOS etc cannot sort this issue out.

Ring the garage, tell them the situation sensitively, maybe ask if they can drag their feet a bit while you and mum come to terms with the fact that it's unfortunately you both that need to come up with a plan

perhaps the £1,000 fine was just for driving without insurance. The £1000 fine is the max specified for not having a license, but if also without insurance it can be unlimited. I'm struggling to understand how you can have valid insurance if you no longer have a license. Maybe the thing I quoted was AI generated? But it might convince your dad that he's not risking "just a £1000 fine".

If his licence has been revoked, he should have received a letter from the DVLA telling him he can't drive.

If he insists he's ok, get him to do a driver assessment - look online for 'older drivers assessment' and you can find all sorts of info.
He might accept an examiner's views as they are assessing him face-to-face rather than a 'faceless paper-pushing bureaucrat'.
(Been there, got the T-shirt...)

Disconnect the battery so the car won't start & talk to the garage. Show them the letter from the DVLA & ask they don't do anything to try & fix the car if he calls them out.
Make sure his insurance & any sort of car recovery he had are informed so they won't come out.
If he does manage to get someone out to fix the car you could try putting a photocopy of the DVLA letter on the driving seat so they will see just what they're getting into.
A steering lock can work as well.

Set up a keysafe & put your mother's car keys in that.

We disconnected the battery so the car wouldn't start. Luckily a family friend was a garage mechanic & came out each time my mother couldn't start the car which he was 'unable' to do.
The car then went into the garage & we got regular updates on how it was...
She eventually forgot about it but it took a while.

The steering wheel lock is genius. Another thing to "lose" the key to.

He can't have his driving assessed by anyone as he's not allowed out on the roads. Seeing conspiracies, refusing to accept reality and a good dose of paranoia about people doing things they shouldn't (like taking your driving licence or other things you own) are fairly common with dementia, in my experience.

Can’t you ring the garage (or go in) and tell them that his licence has been revoked? They can take the car away and then you can sell it.
He will have something from DVLA in writing telling him he can’t drive, so it’s not really anything to do with medical professionals any more. The decision has been made, and like lots of obstinate old men (and women) he just won’t accept it. Unfortunately he has to. Don’t enter into any discussions with him, you will be wasting your breath.

Thanks for the further replies.

He did have a driving assessment after we raised concerns (and before the DVLA revoked his licence) and passed it, albeit by the skin of his teeth. But I agree doing another one unlikely to be an option or helpful now.

Re wider concerns re mum having enough support, thank you for raising but we have been through everything we think - adult social services, trying to get home carers (virtually impossible as they won’t travel to parents village, and don’t help with the sort of stuff we need given my dad can get himself up, showered and dressed etc), carer support for my mum etc. The stints of respite care have been the best thing, ideally my dad would be in a care home most/all of the time but he won’t agree needless to say.

A steering lock and a plan to try to sell the car may be good options but I just don’t know if dad would accept the sale.

My mum is going to visit the garage tomorrow to explain the whole situation and see if they can delay things (though they don’t have much storage to keep the car for long) and/or remove the spark plugs…

I’d be cautious about a steering lock that would of set my dad off like a rocket
and your mum will get the brunt of it

In theory it is possible to get a revoked licence back if you can get an appropriate doctor to support the application. Which we think is unlikely but wonder whether a doctor spelling this out to my father would help.

Yes this is a concern and my dad has real temper issues unfortunately.

Surely the car battery is flat as a frigging pancake if he hasn’t driven it for years?

He won’t get far, the car won’t switch on.

We disconnected the battery so the car wouldn't start. Luckily a family friend was a garage mechanic & came out each time my mother couldn't start the car which he was 'unable' to do.
The car then went into the garage & we got regular updates on how it was...

This is exactly what I did. MIL still tells me earnestly that she has decided she will be fine to drive when the car is 'fixed', but she is surprised how well she has managed without it. It has been gone for 18 months.

Anger and temper are really common in dementia patients, it's part of the condition. It is really really hard to deal with when you're the one on the end of the outbursts but having dementia is very unsettling and scary and it's all just too much for them to cope with.

I think the garage taking the car is a brilliant opportunity.

Can you go and talk to them? No doubt they can't immobilise it themselves but you could inform them that you are going to immobilise it. Ask them to try to move it, then when they can't, to tow it to the garage for repairs. And keep it for several weeks??

I agree also about giving the car to someone else with his agreement. My FIL eventually gave MILs car to my BIL because 'his had broken down and he needed one for work'. It took her a few months to stop bewailing its loss but eventually she did.

I was in this exact situation last year, in the end we removed the keys from the house completely as DF lacks capacity and insisted he was safe to drive and was going to get his licence back. Its a horrible situation to be in, no amount of explaining woukd convince him he was unsafe. He's in a care home now and still obsessed with getting his licence back

Sell the car, for goodness sake. Never mind that your dad will get angry. He's a danger to himself and others.

Does your DF have capacity to decide where he lives?

My FIL with dementia went into a care home for respite. At the end of the 2 weeks, MIL who had been very anxious and guilty about sending him in, didn't take him home.

It was the right decision but not one FIL would ever have understood as his dementia didn't let him see there were any problems.

What worked for my mother was that my husband needed to borrow it. Not me...she never would have agreed. But she thought that, as a man, my husband would enjoy the 4x4 that my father had chosen.

Is there a "cause" that your dad would agree with. My mum might also have given the car to the local priest, had he asked.

Generally though a combination of not managing the tax/Mot paperwork needed to insure the vehicle, as well as the fact that the battery was flat prevented her from driving. Add in missing keys and a wheel lock and perhaps a note inside the car for the garage, and you should be OK. Actually, why not take out the battery and leave a note for the garage inside the bonnet?

We also managed the 'son can't afford a car and really needs one' - FIL was happy for him to have it.

BIL was less thrilled as the car caught fire as he was driving it home. Would have been a total disaster if FIL had been in it at the time.

Get the garage to talk with you and your mum. They take the car and don't return it. Most smaller places will buy cars for scrap or resale, but if not you can pay them a transport fee and then sell it on anyway. It really would be better for the car to just be gone. Then you can repeat, the car was condemned dad and you don't have a licence. Buying a new one would be a lot more effort for him than driving an existing one illegally. So much sympathy, this must be so challenging.

For a relative we had a steering lock on and a note attached advising of the dementia and not to be driving and also on the dashboard. Clear to see for anyone they called re can't get into his car. All keys removed and eventually the car was too.

Your mum needs to be more careful with her keys, get her to use a keysafe and steering lock.

The only reason it was kept so long was because it was a classic car he'd had since he was young and everyday was spent washing and polishing it.

If he was at Addenbrookes, you probably live in an area where you can access East Anglian Driveability. They specialise in driving assessments for people in situations like your dad's. They can also assess for mobility scooters. They are very experienced, so if they have to say "NO" it tends to be memorable. Even for a person with dementia.