Selling mine and mother's house and pooling the proceeds to buy a big house for all?

[falstaff1980]

My mother is in cognitive decline and is only just about managing by herself, in her three bed detached house. I live with wife and 3 year old daughter in a 3 bed terraced about a mile away (also have older children from my first marriage who are students and live here during holidays). It would probably be better for my mother if she lived with us, but neither house is adequate in size.

What would be the pitfalls in selling our houses and pooling the money to buy a bigger house?

My fear is if my mother eventually needs to go into a home, we'll have to sell the house to pay for it and me, my wife, and daughter will end up homeless. Also, if my mother passes away, to pay inheritance tax and my sister's share we'd also have to sell. Is there any way the sale price of my current house could be registered as my 'share' of the new bigger house, and so be excluded from inheritance and care cost calculations?

Who will care for your mother if you share a house?

How much load would this plan place on your wife? Will you be your mums sole carer?

How old is she? How's her physical health? How fast is her cognitive decline? Is she a widow or divorced from your father (affects IHT). Plus all the questions everyone else has asked.

Is there any way the sale price of my current house could be registered as my 'share' of the new bigger house, and so be excluded from inheritance and care cost calculations? You could own the new house as “joint tenants” rather than “tenants in common”, in which case you’d both own a defined share of the house, and only her share would come into care calculations and IHT calculations. You might still need to sell to release her share if required and your share might not be enough to buy a house as big as you’d like.

you need professional advice before doing this, use MN only to help you in thinking of questions to ask.

Don’t be tempted into making her share less than what she’s put in, eg she pays for a third of the house but you set it up that she owns a quarter. She would then be making a gift to you of the difference. It would probably be regarded as deprivation of assets, and the financial calculation for care made as if she still had the extra share. And the extra share would be included in her estate for IHT as it would be a grob - gift with reservation of benefits, so the seven year rule wouldn’t come into play.

Leaving your wife and child homeless is a massive pitfall. I'm surprised you'd continue with the plan if you know this could happen.
You need to speak to a solicitor, not Mumsnet

That's not what he's asking. And I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he has discussed this with his wife.

You need to think very carefully about what would happen if it turned out to be a massive mistake.

For example, it's not predictable how a person with dementia will develop - lovely, lovely, people can become demanding, agressive and abusive. Would you expose your 3 year old to that?

A person can become dangerous to themselves and others, leaving the gas on, wandering, leaving substances dangerous to a child in easy reach. It can be a 24/7 job to supervise them - how are you going to do that and keep the rest of your family happy and safe?

You're tying your nuclear family's future to the health of one person and I do think it's a massive risk. You'd probably be ok if she went into care, but you can't just "put" someone in care - they have to agree to go if they still have capacity, and "my wife will leave me if my mum doesn't move out" won't cut it.

So, inheritance and care fees aside, please do think about the worst case as well as the best case scenarios.

Editing to say, I'm of the generation who knows a LOT of single women (and some families) who ended up living and caring for their elderly parent(s) for the bulk of their adult lives. It can work, but a hell of a lot of them were empty husks when it was all over.

A relative of mine did this with her father. 2 years later his dementia had really progressed, he was doubly incontinent and had to go into a care home.
How would you fund the care home if this happened?

Does mum have the capacity to sell her home and buy with you. Does she want to live with you, would she need a ground floor bedroom and bathroom. Be careful about deprivation of assets if you're only doing this to save on future care costs. Would it be more practical for her to move into some sort of assisted living near you instead where she can live independently but with carers on hand.

Are you going to do the caring?

There are so many pitfalls as you've said in the OP. What if she needs a care home? And you'll have to sell when she passes away.

The who would do the care is big as well. Do you and your wife work? What will happen if she needs increased care? Who will reduce hours etc?

My friend did this with her family and then get divorced which has caused a lot of issues too.

Yes, if it is too much for your marriage how are you going to release the equity in your half to allow your wife and child to be housed?

As well as everything mentioned above about your DM's care needs - what would happen if you pre-deceased your DM? Would your DW be able or willing to take on your DM's care?

Also, what would happen if you and your DW were to divorce? You would be making your DM's home into a marital asset that your wife would have a financial interest in, and this could get incredibly difficult if your marriage were to end.

Another vote for “who is going to wash her/dress her when she’s wet/soiled herself?” Better for your mother but what about your wife?

You’ve got this the wrong way round. Joint tenants means that both people own the whole house so when one person dies the house becomes the property of the other sole owner.

OP, as your dm is ‘in cognitive decline’, does she actually have capacity to make such a huge decision? Also, are you absolutely sure your DM would be happy living in a house full of kids and other adults? I know I wouldnt!
If she did need to go into care, she would have to be self funding - it’s around £1k a week currently. Would she have the money to pay this without taking her house into consideration? The Local authority would complete a financial assessment, and as soon as they see that she sold her home to combine her assets with you they would know it has been done to avoid care home fees. They may be prepared to put a charge against her share of the property to be repaid when she died, but that would gather interest.

Think of this. Your mother,right now is the best she is going to be cognitive wise.
Everything from this day forward will be decline.
Her memory, mobility and her ability to do things for herself.
The decline can be gradual or very quick.
He needs will increase along with doctor and hospital appointments.
If you love your wife and child you need to seriously reconsider moving in with your mother.

If you buy together and she requires full time care then your home will have to be sold. Don't do this.
First step is have a conversation with your wife, mumber 1 priority.
Have you and your sister discussed your mothers care?
Can you get carers in, meals on wheels, get a care needs assessment an cognitive test.
What support is available in her area for.the elderly?

You need to seek advice on this, there's all sorts of potential pitfalls. Future care needs and funding them. Your sisters share of any inheritance, IHT planning and so on. It would probably be sensible not to use the entire sale proceeds of her house to buy a bigger one for you all to live in if that uses up the vast majority of her money and there's nothing left to pay for a nursing home/carers or to pat your sister her share when she dies...

As someone with far too much experience of dementia in 2 relatives (we had FiL living with us for quite a while), I would say, PLEASE don’t do it! Until you’ve experienced it, day in, day out (I would add, night in, night out!) you almost certainly have no idea of how utterly exhausting - both physically and mentally - dementia can be. I know we certainly didn’t - ‘blithely clueless’ would have summed us up. (‘Just getting a bit more forgetful - how hard can that be?’)

We had to learn the hard way, and I say ‘we’ but it mostly fell on me - dh working much longer hours and often away for work.

There’s also the question of deprivation of assets - if she later does need 24/7 residential care, the council won’t give a toss that you did it with the best of intentions. From their POV you have used a parent’s assets to provide yourselves with a bigger house, and will need to repay the money.

Of course if there should be enough funds left over to pay care home fees anyway, this question would not arise.

But do please consider the other issues! When dementia is only ever going to get worse.

The decision to move a parent to a care home is hardly ever easy, and is usually accompanied by a great deal of anguished heart searching, but sadly there often comes a time when the sort of 24/7 care and supervision needed can’t be provided any other way - not without relatives doing their best to care being on their knees with stress and exhaustion.

Yes, I meant to say that in my post, that I might have got it the wrong way round, I can never remember which is which, the "in common" suggests to me you both own the whole thing, as does "joint" so I can never remember which is which.

I'd say there is huge benefit in being five minutes away from an elderly relative, and huge disadvantages to sharing your actual house. As someone has already said, you could actively endanger your child by house sharing with someone who (like my MIL) leaves the gas on, leaves the doors open, moves food from the fridge and hides it, or drops soiled clothing randomly around the house.

I'm sure that you mean well but I think this sounds like a recipe for disaster, apart from anything else it will put a huge strain on your relationship and your family life.

I mean it is possible, it all depends on the money available and housing on the local market. I do know some people who have bought with an elderly parent. One bought a big house and turned the ground floor into a self contained flat. Then they added a new kitchen etc upstairs. They got planning permission and split the title deed. Parent owned bottom flat. They did have to go to a care home after about 14 years but it worked well. She didn’t have massive care needs till the end though.

My mum lives with us and we often had at least one grandparent living with us when I was growing up. No-one ever had severe dementia or needed to go into a home (touch wood etc) other than fast tracked for a very short period at the end of their lives when they were very ill. Mum is 84 now and very well.

I would think very carefully if someone was already having dementia symptoms. It could work if they have their own space and you make provision for paying for private care when required.

You might just be better getting her into sheltered accommodation now though.