Can section 117 ‘after care’ ever be revoked?

[sunsmachinery]

Hi there

My 79 yr old mother is paranoid that my dads section 117 after care could one day be revoked. Could this ever happen? Dad is 84 in a great care home but continually asks to go home so it’s going to court as dols have had to visit him.

He has Alzheimer’s, I'm his advocate… my mother is worried all the time and that if she sells her house to give herself more to live on (small pension) the council could one day ask for it all back? The care home fees as 1,700 a week and is being paid for by the council. He was sectioned due to horrific behaviour towards my mum.

many thanks in advance 🙏🏻

almost 100% unlikely to be revoked unless somehow he makes a recovery, which is unlikely

Take advice on the house. It’s not included in his assessment while she’s living in it. But this only applies to that particular property. Once she moves, his half is available for assessment. However, if he “makes some of his money available” to her to enable downsizing, this might not be treated as deprivation of assets. Age UK factsheet

It doesn’t look as if there’s provision for giving her extra money to live on.

I wonder if this is a situation where equity release could be sensible?

But this is all very complicated, so don’t rely on us, get professional advice from an accountant or solicitor specialising in elderly affairs.

Thank you both 🙏🏻 I don’t think any financial assessment took place because he was sectioned and went into a psychiatric hospital for 6 months? Then into his current care home where he’s been for over a year.

Dm is currently looking for a solicitor for advice but it’s very hard to find anyone specialising in this area.

There shouldn't be any financial assessment for section 117 aftercare. It's true the section can technically be revoked if it becomes clear he no longer requires this level of care. This seems unlikely in your parents' situation. It's probably more common in younger patients who have a chance of recovery.
I'm only going from my own, one case experience, however, and it was a bit of a struggle to get even professionals to understand what a section 117 involved in terms of fees. Or they pretended not to. It's hard to be sure.

My social worker said technically it can but off the record this doesn’t happen in the case of elderly person whose needs are only ever going to get greater.

No financial assessment will ever be done when there is a S117 in place.

identical situation here with loved one

once that order was in place… there was never even the whiff of a conversation about it

I think because it’s going to court it’s making her very anxious and the social worker has asked a few times how many bedrooms she has in their shared home… crazy considering the back story. She has power of attorney for health & finance.

Have you spoken to AgeUK ? I've heard good things about them helping people out with this tricky stuff.
ignore the social workers. My friends dad was told he would have to sell the house to pay her mums fees, ageuk helped them and when they complained it transpired the local council were just lying to people to try abd get them to pay

The DoLS and the s.117 aftercare are completely disconnected from each other. It has no bearing on the S.117 aftercare but if it did the DoLs would probably just add more weight that the s.117 is appropriate.

Unless there is some more context it's bizarre and inappropriate for the social worker to be asking how many rooms the house has, at best hopefully a clumsy attempt at conversation?

It can be but very unlikely in this case
and even if so he would only be assessed on his income.
Not sure re selling the house as half the proceeds would be classed as ‘his’

Social worker may have been asking about bedrooms in order to rule out live in care for the DOLS best interests report as you have to show you have considered all options

No it can't as long as the person continues to requires services that S117 is paying for

CHC can be revoked. Maybe she is confused with that.

She should not sell the house until the court case is over though as it might be seen as trying to circumvent/ frustrate the DOLS process.

I am sure the court will make a sensible decision that he stays where he is but the process has to be gone through including putting the alternative option of returning with eg live in care to the court so they can decide. This is why the social worker is asking about it. It would be pointless to have a case where the outcome was pre determined. They have to properly consider the other options even if they dismiss them

It's nothing to do with money though S117 will pick up the whole bill forever so there is no need to worry about his assets at all.