Should I interfere?

[dottydoooda]

A very dear friend of our family is elderly and lives on her own close by. She has a son who also lives nearby with his family. We don’t know him very well.
Our friend is suffering from terrible anxiety, her memory is failing her, she has other health problems which are difficult for her to cope with on her own. Every time I phone or see her, she is in tears about how she’s a burden and she’s frightened. It’s very distressing to speak to her and when I do, it’s quite usual to get about 5-6 other calls afterwards with her repeating her thoughts and anxieties. She’s simply sobbing.
She doesn’t seem to have any carers which she is in dire need for but says they’re too expensive. She would rather die than leave her home and tries to pretend she’s coping as much as she can in fear of being ‘sent away’.
It’s hard to talk to her son as last time, I felt I was getting a ‘don’t interfere’ vibe.
I just don’t know what to do - there must be some help out there? It’s new territory to me. Is there somewhere I can alert anonymously?

Report to Adult Social Care in your area as a concern for her welfare. If you can, I'd also pass comment on whether she looks fed, watered, clean, safe, healthy and mentally OK etc. Don't mention the son, he's a red herring.

That poor woman. I really feel for her. I agree with the previous poster; report this to adult social services in the morning.

Yes if the sons not approachable this is the best way to go

To be fair to the son there are many of us trying to get our olds to accept carers/cleaners etc and encountering immovable resistance. You may have approached him just after or as he is going into another attempt and he was keeping hold of himself to stop saying "FGS you try and persuade her, she won't listen to family".

Yes this, or the other possibility is that the lady is having plenty of care visits and while theoretically able to cope, if she has dementia or maybe even just severe anxiety, she may be forgetting and getting herself wound up in between times - we had a very sweet elderly neighbour who was similar, her family weren't local but she honestly had so much input, carers 4 times a day, meals on wheels, district nurse daily, GP weekly, local befriender charity took her out 3 times a week, people from the local church visisted near enough daily plus lots of neighbours popping in for tea and chats as well. No matter how many visits she'd already had that day it took her approximately 30 mins being on her own to get lonely and upset and within the hour she'd be ringing round anyone who's number she had sobbing and distressed, sometimes with imaginary problems with getting food or prescriptions or hospital visits (if you went over there to help out she'd have plenty of food in, or the prescription would be being delivered that day), sometimes she was just feeling sad or afraid of something. She would say things like 'no-one's been near me for days' when I knew that simply wasn't true (I'd have seen all her visitors coming and going all morning!). If you went over and sat with her for a bit and had a cup of tea and a chat she'd be delighted and apparently soothed and calm, yet 30 mins later she'd be back on the phone to me or anyone else who'd pick up saying she was horribly lonely again. Several times we found her wandering the streets in her nighty at odd times of day crying and approaching strangers saying she just needed a bit of help when there was no more help she could possibly have .

She ultimately just wanted to be a bit more looked after bless her, in the olden days she'd have lived with family (and probably driven them a bit mad!), these days she probably would have been better off in a care home but any time the capacity assessment social workers came around she would suddenly be bright as a button, coping fine on her own, definitely didn't need/want to leave her own home etc - I think all that was driven by fear of care homes/institutions which is fair enough given what they must have been like in her youth, a lot of elderly are exactly the same.

Anyway as to what to do, if you are worried the right people to speak to are adult social services - they can do an assessment and perhaps put in place some carers - or maybe try Age Concern, they may be able to suggest things like local befriending services, they can't help with care but can help with the loneliness thing?

This. PIL refuse carers despite being in a dire state, they just won't spend the money yet have hundreds of thousands sat in savings (have told us their IFA has told them to get rid of some of it).
Infuriating, because neighbours keep approaching us saying they need help.

You could tell your friend that she might be entitled to carers paid for by council (where my DM lives if your savings are less than £23,000 they pay if your need is proven). Also she might get attendance allowance (think about £17 per week) or pension credit (many people don’t claim but entitled). Maybe a carer visiting would help her stay in her own home.

Attendance allowance is much greater than £17 per week, Lower rate £68.10, higher rate £101.75 per week. It’s not means tested. My mum’s more than covers her carer costs.

@dottydoooda what @countrygirl99 says is probably pretty accurate. We are in a very similar same situation as you with DH's late 80s grandma. She has days where she rings round everyone she knows telling them about how abandoned she is, how she has no food, no heat, no money and no company since DH's granddad died over 15 years ago. The truth is very different there are 5 of us on a rota, she is visited at least 2x a day for medication and food. The heating is on all day but on thermostats so turns off when the room temperature gets to 23 degrees (the flat is like an oven and is newish built to is really insulated), she has lots and lots of food in the house including microwave meals (she just binge eats it, then doesn't eat for 2 days), we get cash out for her but she hides it round the house in her stashing places.

She struggles to wash and dress, needs help to remember medication, struggles to use appliances so needs someone to microwave meals for her as on bad days she doesn't remember how to use the microwave.

She absolutely point blank refuses carers or going into a home. She believes that if she goes in a home then she will die within weeks. When the carers assessment appointment came she was like a woman 20 years younger - she could do everything, bright as a button, knew where everything was, judged to have capacity.

One thing the volunteer service round us recommended was keeping a diary. It could help the ladies family if you kept a log of these calls as it's evidence for needing more support.

Does the son know how often you see/hear from her?
It’s all very well getting a ‘don’t interfere’ vibe from him, but you can’t ignore what’s happening and you have her best interests at heart. Is there another way of approaching him?

Unfortunately with elderly people like this it seems to take a crisis to force change - often a hospital admission.

Attendance allowance is £68 at the lower rate (not needing overnight care) and is not means tested. Best to ask Age UK for help in filling in the form.

Value of house is disregarded in financial assessment for care. So if she has less than £23000 in savings and the local authority agree she needs carers, they will pay some or all of the cost

Thanks so much for all of your replies - so helpful. To be honest it could be like @Caffeineislife and @maxelly‘s situation. She’s got very caring neighbours and when I’m speaking to her, the door bell is going and people are phoning on the landline. She pretends she’s fine very well to others - I think the council has already been around. I’ll go around this week and see how things are, then decide on a plan based on your advice.

It must be very distressing for you, the best people are adult social services. Also Google volunteer services for elderly in the area, they befriend and visit, arrange days out, also day centers with meals and chat who collect and drop off.
Friends and family get frazzled, I couldn't cope with my mums constant demands, 10+ calls a day, especially when I was working, it's really hard. My mum had carers, my dad, family visits but she wanted more and did this attention seeking and crying all the time.
I had a terrible childhood and I do think some oldies are alone because they weren't very nice parents. It's certainly true for me.
I hope you find this lady some help, getting old is no fun and for many it's very confusing.

In the last few months I've has phone calls fro my MILS neighbours telling me x,y and z. Some telling us we aren't doing enough and others very well meaning and kind. I must admit that I have also been a bit defensive as we both work full time and have a child.
Not saying you are one of the ones telling the son what he should and shouldn't be doing but maybe he is fielding an endless stream of other things too.

You sound like a lovely friend.

Well done for wanting to help your friend.

We had 2 different scenarios with our DMs. My DM was happy to accept help from carers and make adaptations to her home to support her mobility.

MIL refused all help, home made meals were left to rot, she wouldn't consider carers, a cleaner, a chair lift, a shower instead of a bath. She fell several times and neglected her personal care. My DH tried everything to support her, what she really needed was residential care.

She would phone neighbours for help, had them all doing her shopping and picking her up off the floor, washing soiled bedding. My DH was the bad guy as far as the neighbours were concerned.

Be careful you don't get too involved incase it begins to affect your health, but a phone call to social services might help.

Speak to the son again. Find out what he's doing. If you offer help, make sure you can actually help on a practical level. What can you offer? A daily visit, a day out every week, practical help in her house etc etc. It is a big commitment and you need to be reliable and consistent.

There can be a lot going on, but with no visible outward signs of it. Elder care is hard work and time consuming, frequently upsetting and frustrating, but also rewarding with moments of heartwarming experiences.

@maxelly , with dementia the loss of short term memory that makes them think they haven’t seen anyone for ages. I once met my brother who was getting into his car after leaving DM’s house, just as I was arriving.

I said to Dm straightaway, ‘Oh, Richard’s just been to see you, then.’

‘No, he never comes near!’ (Said in plaintive tones.)

And yet it had barely been five minutes. It wasn’t pretence or ‘denial’ - she genuinely couldn’t remember.

My mum tells everyone that I take her out for lunch every Monday. I'm at work over an hour away at that time. I go evenings or weekends. She tells everyone she doesn't see my youngest brother for months but he visits most weeks. She has been telling me about something that happened on his "last visit" for over a year. It actually happened when my other brother visited before Christmas 2022. He lives several hours away but has still seen her a few times since.

If she has capacity, she can make her own decisions, she doesn’t need the permission of her son.

So, if she trusts you would she let you help her with an Attendance Allowance application to get whatever help she chooses ? And agree to a needs assessment? Re-assure her that they absolutely cannot ‘send her away’ without her agreement, and getting this sort of help will help ensure that she has what she needs to stay in her house and not be a ‘burden’ for as long as she feels it is right for her.