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Elderly parents
Original poster

Hospital saying next time not to admit mum

46 replies

portocristo · 13/12/2023 05:28

Mum is 86 and in a care home,she has alzeimers but imo not advanced you can have a nice conversation with her.

She is in hospital now with pneumonia and this is the third time since September. She responds well to treatment which is oxygen, intravenous antibiotics and sometimes a saline drip. The doctor has now said that the next time she gets pneumonia which she will as she has scarring on her lungs that she should be made comfortable with morphine and other end of life drugs and basically be left to die. I can't get my head around this it seems totally wrong to me, has anyone else had this situation? And can we refuse this suggestion?

OP posts:
LickleLamb · 13/12/2023 05:31

Perhaps she can be treated at the Care Home

Original poster
portocristo · 13/12/2023 05:42

This is what they want, for her to stay at the care home but only give end of life drugs.

OP posts:
Original poster
portocristo · 13/12/2023 05:44

It seems as though they are writing her off .

OP posts:
BeadedBubbles · 13/12/2023 05:45

Sorry you're going through this, but what do you think your mum would want? I don't know if you can demand treatment next time this happens but the more pertinent question is should you? If I was an 86 year old living in a care home with dementia and recurring bouts of pneumonia I definitely wouldn't want any interventions to keep me alive.

MrsNandortheRelentless · 13/12/2023 05:47

When you say you can have a nice conversation with her, what about other worsening symptoms?
So is her swallowing ok, is she eating and drinking ok? How is her mobility? Is she still able to walk around and move ok?

Do they think that she is maybe inhaling foods/liquids leading to repeated chest infections?

JenniferJupiterVenusandMars · 13/12/2023 05:51

The doctors need to have that conversation with her and document her wishes. Both my parents were clear that they did not want further medical intervention other that pain relief if needed.
It isn't ‘writing her off’ it’s being realistic about what the patient wants and is actually feasible.

Mirrormeback · 13/12/2023 05:51

Your DM will have spoken to the doctors and have come to this agreement

He's just the messenger because your mum can't tell you she's has enough which is quite sad

whyamiawakestill · 13/12/2023 05:52

That sounds awful, can they do that? Refuse to treat her?

Sorry that must be really hard, and if she's ok chatting and talking it seems a bit odd,

FiveShelties · 13/12/2023 05:52

This happened to my Dad, in our case it was for the best. The constant in and out of hospital was awful as he was frightened/seeing things and he was only well for a few days and then back into hospital again.

To be honest I wish the end of life care had been earlier. The last few months of his life were not good for him, my Mum or me.

But only you know how your Mum is and what she would want and I am so sorry you find yourself in this situation - it is awful.

Mirrormeback · 13/12/2023 05:53

And when I say it's sad it's because you want to maybe prolong her suffering whereas she really doesn't want to

You have to accept the situation

Mirrormeback · 13/12/2023 05:54

Let her go

countrygirl99 · 13/12/2023 05:56

People with alzheimer's often find being in hospital distressing. If she has had pneumonia 3 times since September there will be an underlying reason snd as someone has suggested the likelihood is that her swallow mechanism is going and food is getting into her lungs and it's only going to go one way.

MrsNandortheRelentless · 13/12/2023 05:56

I only ask because swallowing can decline in Alzheimer’s and this is not curable meaning that every time food/liquids are taken, it runs into the lungs causing scarring and pneumonia. Cough reflex declines too.

Therefore repeated admission to hospital is traumatic & not conducive to a peaceful death.

LickleLamb · 13/12/2023 06:04

Is she able to get up and about?

Awumminnscotland · 13/12/2023 06:10

Hi Op, I wonder if any professional has discussed with you about what would happen if during one of these episodes of pneumonia your mother stopped breathing what would you envisage happening to her? Her life limiting illness is unlikely to make her a candidate for itu if she deteriorates suddenly.
She has alzeihmers, I wonder what her days are like for her in hospital for days on end away from what's familiar to her. If she quickly deteriorated in hospital she may die there away from all that's familiar and that currently makes her life hers.
It's not that they have given up on her, it's that at this stage of her life she needs a wider plan that ensures she is most comfortable and happy for her time with you. Reducing the sudden and terrifying interventions that happen to her is most of that plan.
I'm sorry no one from the care home has discussed with you before now the plan for end of life care in the foreseeable future. It doesn't mean giving up on her it means giving her the very best care at the time she needs it. I would ask to speak with a specialised alzeihmers care nurse and discuss fully with the care home what their end of life care looks like. Unfortunately many care home fail to put plans in place quickly enough so future planning is key.
I had this all with my mum and I was actually the one to initiate with the care home the plan for her to not go to hospital but to stay at the home where she was not frightened and confused. Palliative care is really what care homes bread and butter should be and that can look like many things depending on how well your mum is at different times.
Please find a suitable professional you to trust to discuss this with.
I wish you and your mum well.

Original poster
portocristo · 13/12/2023 06:15

Thanks everyone your replies have been helpful.

OP posts:
Original poster
portocristo · 13/12/2023 06:17

Ironically her ward now has norovirus (she doesn't have it) so they can't discharge her yet anyway.

And yes she can walk with her walker and really enjoys her food.

OP posts:
MrsNandortheRelentless · 13/12/2023 06:19

Sorry that this is the situation porto, but it does sound like they haven’t communicated well with you about your mums deteriorating condition.

Just consider that because she is chatting ok, does not mean that her body systems are not rapidly declining.
The repeated pneumonias are very telling and a fairly good indicator of this.

Iwishiwasasilentnight · 13/12/2023 06:23

Pneumonia is physical painful, scary and exhausting. It takes months for a young healthy adult to recover and your mother is getting no where near this before she is ill again so she’s going to get weaker and weaker.

Sending my love because it’s an awful position to be in.

Tiredbehyondbelief · 13/12/2023 06:30

Losing a mum is a very painful and scary experience too. OP have you got anyone to lean for spiritual support? Hospitals have Chaplaincy for people of all denominations and none. Have you tried approaching them? Also, they can talk to doctors on your behalf.

Original poster
portocristo · 13/12/2023 06:35

Thank you so much for your replies, you have all been really kind. My brother and I are dealing with together so that is good. I am signing off on this thread now,but thanks again.

OP posts:
Toddlerteaplease · 13/12/2023 06:50

If that was my mum. That is exactly what I'd want for her. To stay at home in peace and comfort.

Brefugee · 13/12/2023 06:52

Gently, OP, what does your mum want?

I'm sorry you have to face this, virtual hugs

Brightandbubly · 13/12/2023 06:54

Sending hugs to you and your family

Soontobe60 · 13/12/2023 06:57

I’m going through similar with my stepfather at the moment. Pneumonia is awful and makes you feel like shit. Every episode will lead to more scarring which in turn will lead to further bouts of the disease. The likely hood of her dying whilst ill in hospital is very high, she would be much better in familiar surroundings with people she knows to care for her. She’s not being written off, she’s being allowed to end her days as best as possible x