Home Carers if you live with elderly person

[MissMarplesNiece]

Anyone have home carers go in to give care if family are also at home?

I'm wondering if I should try & organise home carers for DM, mainly to go in during the morning for personal care breakfast etc.

There is family at home - BiL & nephew - & tho they give her breakfast (she's actually capable of getting her own but doesnt) she isn't washing etc and very often not getting dressed either. She's capable of this too but doesn't.

Is this the kind of thing a home carer could come and do? She doesn't get up until 10 or 11 - would this be too late for carers?

From personal experience, a home carer would only help with someone who isn't capable of caring for themselves,

Obviously she isn't capable or she would be happy to help herself, I think you need to get an assessment done by the local Social services and see that they can arrange.

You would be expected to pay, home care for at least two hour a day the going rate of £20/25 per hour. This means you will pay: £350 per week, can she afford this.

Some companies will refuse one call because it isn't worth the money to do one call due to time and carers travelling at least with an assessment you have an idea of that she may need.

Hope it all goes well, I've been there with my own DM and it can be hard going to get the right packages in place, I had to stop working together to look after my mam x

When my dad lived with me we had a carer who came in to get him up and dressed and make his breakfast. They will come when you want and do what you want. It’s not cheap but a good idea.

She's had 2 care assessments, last one in May. They assessed that she needed aids around the house - a bed rail, perching stool for bathroom etc - but she did not need "care" as such and was capable of making a cuppa, washing and dressing herself etc.

I feel that she's being neglected but it's self-neglect if you see what I mean. True, she needs help to wash her hair, cut her nails, stuff I can do every week. But she's not doing the daily stuff that she's very capable of doing. I don't want to go to the house everyday (I have my own serious physical & mental health problems that I try to deal with) to give her a wash & make sure she cleans her teeth, but I don't know what else to do. I also think, maybe wrongly , that the more you do for someone who is capable, the more they lose the ability to do for themselves - learned helplessness.

Home care is definitely something you can think about. 11 o’clock is a time where there is a lull and home care companies would happily take on the package.

Half an hour in the morning would suffice, if she’s reluctant for carers or needs to build trust make it a companionship visit. Half an hour for a chat and cup of tea for a relationship to develop.

Any good carer will promote independence, so will only assist with a wash or shower rather than do it all.

Have you asked her why she isn’t getting washed and dressed? There might be specific issues that you can address.

i do agree it’s self neglect, but at the same time there are many people who don’t shower every day and spend their time in pjs. Is she choosing to live like this, or is something going on cognitively? Is she depressed? What does she do with herself during the day? Anything she needs to get dressed for?

what’s the set up at home? she lives with your BIL and his son? Are they caring for her or just there temporarily?

If she needs the care to be funded by the Local Authority and they have assessed her as not eligible, then that's that I'm afraid. Obviously if she can afford to fund it herself then that's different, but it would then depend if she actually wants care workers coming in.
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I would look at whether she's depressed. Why isn't she getting up, getting washed etc? Is there a local day centre or lunch club she could go to which she might enjoy?

My dad had one care visit a day on three days a week. This was largely for washing, shaving and teeth cleaning and was all the company had available at the time. 11am for a care visit is fine. Be aware it won’t be exact as they may get caught up on a prior call. Timings were 30 mins I think.

As others have said, though, this was privately paid.

the vast majority of people want care 1st thing so a late morning visit wouldn’t be a problem
the only issue I could see is at 11 o’clock the carers will have multiple visits before and if they get delayed it can snowball from 10 minutes to an hour late

DM lives with my sister, BiL and a couple of their adult children. DSis works from home half the week, BiL doesn't work, nephew a student.

I think she's depressed. Spoke to her GP about it but he wouldn't prescribe anything because of contraindications for other medication she takes. I tried to find her a Counsellor but no one was interested in taking on an 89 year old.

I've suggested to DSis that some kind of day centre or lunch club would be good for her, but DSis thinks DM wouldn't go. I think DSis is probably right about that. I think I have to redouble my efforts to find somewhere & persuade her to go.

Specifying a time is nigh on impossible if you are using agency carers, it’s basically you get what you are given, could be 06.30 for ‘breakfast’ , could be 10.00 and you never know when until they turn up.
It drove my FiL mad when they would wake him at 07.00 and try to make him eat.
Is directly employing a ‘home help’ type carer an option?

Ah, ok.

What is her life like at your sisters? Does she get interaction with the family there? It sounds like quite a busy household, with lots of people around, but that doesn’t always equal company and positive interaction.

I know your sister is obviously doing a lot by having your mum live there. Do you feel she is being looked after well enough? What is your sister’s role in relation to your mum’s well being?

Nonetheless, at 89 maybe she just wants to do less? Is she suffering from lack of showering / dressing? What does your sister feel about this aspect of her care?

Does your DM live in your sister’s house or the other way round? Why isn’t your sister supporting her to get up / washed / dressed?

It might be worth requesting another assessment. In terms of paying for care it depends on DM's finances. She'd be assessed if she's eligible for support. DM may benefit from a PA (social services can find through a direct payment if she's eligible or they can advise on where to look for these even if she's not eligible). It'd mean she'd have the same person visiting consistently. Companionship calls can be arranged which could help her mood.
obviously DM needs to agree to all of the above.

And yes it can be really hard to find counsellors for older adults which is infuriating.

I wonder what you mean by 'capable' -physically capable but too depressed to do it, or cognitive decline meaning she doesn't remember to start things off but will do it if prompted?

I like the suggestion of a carer starting off as a companion. That might do something for her depression too.

My mum had home carers, specifically for personal care, as she was able to make her own food (at least she was when the care package was originally put in place). She had Alzheimer's, which adds a whole new area of complexity, but like your DM, she didn't get up until 11.00. This wasn't seen as a problem. There was a certain lack of consistency with regard to the time the carers turned up in practice, but in theory they were ok with it, if that makes sense.

I would just say that your biggest obstacle could be in getting your DM to cooperate with the carers. With my mum, the carers came in, asked her if she needed any personal care, she said 'no' and off they trotted. She hated them coming in and only became compliant when I suggested that, rather than ask her, they needed to say in a firm but pleasant tone 'Right, let's get you washed and changed and sort out a wee cup of tea' or something along those lines. She still wasn't exactly delighted, but she didn't know how to refuse! I must add that it was absolutely necessary in her case as she was incontinent and was going to bed in her clothes😬

This is not correct advice , a persons needs may change , if she can do it but isn't there is a reason behind it . Self neglect is very real

@coribells of course she would be entitled to another assessment if her needs change, but the OP has said tgat she was assessed in May and found to be ineligible. In our LA you cannot request another assessment for 6 months unless you've had a change of function or circumstances