FIL and anxiety - do we get involved or mind our own business

[Thosesummernights]

Argh I wrote a long post and my phone battery went before I got to post it!

Short summary. Once active FIL now effectively confined to his home. He’s had two serious bouts of flu and pneumonia in the last few years which has obviously affected him. He now literally sits in his chair and reads the news all day. He’s late 70’s.

He can be social when he wants but it’s choice not to go for walks now (he’s not doing any exercise and although not remotely overweight, he’s got muscle weakness from not using his body and finds a short walk now hard). Rather than start to get fit, he just finds excuses to sit and do nothing.

He has always been anxious but it’s now controlling their lives. What he says goes and MIL has very little say in any big decisions (he decides if they go on holiday, he decides if they spend money, he controls the bank accounts and sees it very much as his money which she doesn’t have access to as he hides the bank cards.)

He has stopped them watching movies or tv in the evening now as he’s anxious that the noise will carry through to the neighbours house. Both they and the neighbours have lived in their houses for over 40 years and noise has never been an issue. They get on really well so we don’t know why this is suddenly a thing.

His hearing isn’t great but he refuses to get tested as he doesn’t think there is anything wrong but he can’t control the tone of his voice and shouts a lot.

He hates being away from home and won’t spend more than an hour with us, especially in the evening. He rushes MIL to finish her dinner/drink as he wants to get home. He drinks heavily in the evening and always has -80/100 units a week. Lager and whisky. Apparently the DR has said it’s fine.

Hes very controlling of MIL and her diet and drinking. She looks great and is very attractive but he treats her like a house keeper and doesn’t show her any affection. Her beauty is hidden under sensible shoes and clothes. If she’s out playing tennis on afternoon he won’t let her have a drink the evening before in case she’s over the limit the next day. It’s very extreme given that my MIL isn’t a heavy drinker anyway. If we do every go out for dinner he was make a fuss about her eating too much and having pudding. Then he starts raising his voice so DH has to step in and tell him to stop.

MIL is still very fit and active and has her own social life. She is desperate to go on holiday but has no say as he decides what happens but he makes promises and then moves the goal posts. I suspect he has anxiety about going on holiday now but rather than admitting it, just strings MIL along. Apparently he’s told her he will pay for her to go away with someone else but that will come with strings attached. She is so upset and fed up of the situation. It’s like he’s got one foot in the grave and he’s just waiting for the end. But he’s far from the end. If he cut down drinking about started exercising then he’d be great.

I suspect undiagnosed anxiety is a big part of everything, along with the drinking. But can we help? Should we mind our own business? MIL doesn’t want to make a fuss as it’ll end in shouting but it’s no life. They have the funds to do whatever they want so there is no financial issue bar he doesn’t like spending money.

His World has become small but it doesn’t have to be. And it’s dragging MIL down. Who do we support here? At what point do we address the extreme behaviour, if at all? Where is the line? Thank you

I would email his GP with the concerns you've raised here, and especially about MIL who is on the receiving end of it all. Poor woman, she would be the immediate focus of my attention and giving her some respite from it.

He may be an alcoholic - and he may have early stage dementia, certainly from the paranoia you've described. But he also sounds like a very controlling bully, and she has this 24/7.

She may not be able to verbalise how toxic this situation is for her.

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

My FIL was in the same situation with his 2nd wife. Awful bullying behaviour, ringing him when he was out shopping saying he was with another woman.

Turned out to be dementia but neither of them would accept help. He was a broken man by the time she died, and DH deeply regrets not stepping in to force a change for him.

I think that’s a good term you’ve used @MillWood85 “paranoia”. I think the issues have become more serious over time. It’s not like it’s happened overnight and that’s why we start to question ourselves and wonder is it really that bad.

Well it is that bad. Especially for MIL. Luckily she is out most morning doing her own thing but I feel for her when I see her denied any fun or pleasure in their dotage. My parents are the complete opposite so I don’t like to compare them.

My DH and I live locally where are my SIL is over two hours away and doesn’t really see it day to day. When she comes down it hits her how bad it is.

We do lots of MIL but the sad thing is, he will happy host and socialise with extended family. Run them around places or take them out. So we’re not sure if it is dementia or just controlling/selective if that makes sense. It’s definitely his way or the highway, the extreme behaviour is getting worse and it’s understanding what’s him and what’s mental/dementia type behaviour.

Would the GP be allowed to discuss concerns with us? Would it get back to him? I really don’t want to rock the boat for MIL so would need to proceed with caution.

I should add that he’s currently got chest issues but won’t go for a check up - waiting to see if it clears. Given his history he absolutely should have gone in by now. The last time he went in, he left it so late to seek help he was hospitalised. If he’d got antibiotics sooner he could have avoided it. It’s almost like he wants the worst to happen.

I'm sorry, that all sounds very difficult. I agreed with PP that supporting your MIL would be good. Try to encourage her to take control, if at all possible.
Also, there is no way on earth a Dr has told him that drinking 80+ units a week is fine.

I don’t think he was completely honest with the GP about his alcohol intake although he blood tests came back ok. That said, that was maybe 15 years ago.

My Dad was taken unwell last year, and some of his symptoms were behaviour/cognitive decline. I wrote an email to his GP, and they got Dad to come in for a check up and some bloods. They didn't share that I'd contacted them and made it clear that they couldn't discuss his case with me - but it did set a ball in motion.

I think I would push the confrontation a bit more. I'd pick perhaps one or two things that I thought were particularly important and chip away at them.

From what you've said, I'd focus on getting your MIL to go on holiday, and on the drinking. With the holiday, I think you have to assume that his anxiety and controlling behaviour will go into overdrive in the run up including a medical crisis on the day she is due to go. Could you divide forces? Your dh takes your MIL away, perhaps even takes her on holiday, while you stay behind and call the ambulance/dodge the insults?

With the drinking, get a bit blunter. Of course he's drinking himself to death at that rate. Of course the doctor didn't say that was ok. Say it out loud and often. Absorb some of the anger for your MIL.

Alcohol is certainly a depressant. With the amount you mention I'm surprised it hasn't killed him already!

As his cognitive ability declines, he will become himself but more so.

There could be all sorts going on with him but I'd tell the GP and see what happens. We have had to take a step back from my PiL because they are so resistant to any interference. It's not good.

Thank you @MillWood85 thats very helpful to hear. The risk of him finding out would be concerning.

He would ‘allow’ her to go away, what I mean is that he would be the one to decide on the budget and would definitely have an opinion on where and when etc. sapping all the fun out of it. She has no freedom to decide for herself. So I could go with her and would be happy to but if the accommodation was more than he would be prepared to pay, he would not be happy. So they don’t end up doing anything because it becomes a hassle. For example, they might decide to go to the cinema but then he get anxious about where to park to the point they then don’t go. He never wants to pay for parking or a taxi. That’s just one tiny example of the things that upset him.

To be clear, he can be the most sociable person, and very interesting to talk to. It’s sad seeing who he is now. They used to travel everywhere and go aboard six times a year.It’s been the last four years we’ve noticed the difference I would say.

The drinking has always been an issue but for my DH and SIL and MIL it’s normal for them. A litre plus of spirits plus lagers a week, every week for years without any break is not healthy. I would say he’s been self medicating his anxiety for many years. He has shakes now. His hands in particular. So it’s having some affect.

I’m getting on a bit and would say that drinking makes my memory and brain much worse the next day. That’s part of the problem I’m sure.
Couldnt DM set up her own tv/ laptop in another room and watch what she wants.
I doubt he going to get any more tolerant -she needs to insist on some changes. I’d hate to go on holiday with him - too much stress and angst.

Your poor MIL. That sounds no way to live for her.

Could MIL use one bluetooth earbud and listen to the TV or radio while the program plays on her laptop or tablet? Most of us crumblies know how to use tech these days. I use one bluetooth earbud so that I can watch TV on my phone at night and not disturb my DH. He has dementia and doesn't like noise or light at night.

That’s emotional and financial abuse. I’d be trying to get her away from him as much as possible. But I’ve no idea how.

I understand that he thinks his hearing is fine, but people over 65 need to have regular hearing tests and eye tests. Undiagnosed hearing loss is a big risk factor for developing dementia. (As is social isolation). If he wants to stay independent, he needs to get that done.

I think your DH needs to have a hard talk with him about how miserable he is making MIL and he needs to pull his head in and allow her to be her own person. This means accessing THEIR money without complaint or constraint and to start speaking to her with the respect and kindness she deserves, or he will find himself divorced, alone, with half of his assets and no family to back him up, because they will be supporting her through the process.

Unfortunately she doesn’t have a laptop or tablet - hers are so out of date they don’t work. Her mobile is outdated but he has to have a say as to what she has and questions why someone her age needs a decent all singing phone. She doesn’t have blue tooth headphones and although we’d happy buy them for her, we can’t buy her the tech to run them.

It is financial control, completely. We have spoken to him but what do you do when it ends in shouting. He will shut any conversation down and it ends in confrontation. I do feel it’s a mental issue with him, but also, he can be social when he wants to be. When it suits him. So I think whatever is going on is a medical issue which is exasperating his already controlling/anxious personality.

How do we have these conversations with him? DH and SIL have actually spoken and called him out on a few things yesterday which of course got shut down. SIL pointed out that he should carry on if he wants to find himself single.

Well, you can't. It sounds like he's always been a controlling man whose wife has always gone along with his wishes. Their children were brought up to do the same. That was manageable so long as his wishes were pretty acceptable, although she has probably never had any access to money.

The problem is that now his wishes are to sit in paranoid silence and drink. Not as acceptable. But your MIL still just wants to keep the peace. It's awful to watch, but it is her choice. She sounds active, capable and like she has developed coping mechanisms instead of demanding something different. Obviously it's horrible to see and you're desperate to help her because she apparently won't help herself, but you can't reach into their relationship and change it now, just because they're getting old. Controlling, abusive or unpleasant partners don't generally outgrow it with age (dementia aside), and you can no more knock sense into either party at 80 than you can at 40. Nor can you reason with the unreasonable.

As others have suggested, if you think it's health related, you can try to contact the GP, but you can't drag him down there. You could buy MIL a cheap mobile phone as well as the headphones, if finances allow. It's all just papering over the cracks that have always been there though really. Sometimes we all have to watch our parents make bad decisions which we're powerless to prevent, whether we're 5 or 50.

Sadly there is a lot of truth in what you say @TheNorthWind its so hard to watch when you think she’s in brilliant health and should be making the most of it, and if she had the chance, would be jetting here there and everywhere.

The health issues are concerning and we will definitely speak to the GP as far as we can. I guess the rest we have to take a step back from and maybe distance is the best thing but always leaving our door open for her? I’ve told her see can come and stay with us any time so she knows she has that option.

Sorry it's so bleak, but unfortunately it's probably all you can do.

"I guess the rest we have to take a step back from and maybe distance is the best thing but always leaving our door open for her?"
It's the advice you'd get if they were any other age, so yes, I think so. It would be a good idea for her to try and squirrel away a bit of money he doesn't know about though. In her case, probably not so much an escape fund as a Keep the lights on while we hunt for the bank cards if he goes first fund.

Regarding the health issues, admitting physical frailty is admitting a loss of control, conceding defeat. In light of that, it's not surprising that somebody like your FIL really doesn't want to engage with health care and risk having to do as he's told by the doctor. (And aging is scary for everyone anyway.)

If he's lost muscle mass in his 70s it's very hard to get it back even with serious physio and exercise so you'll probably have to accept that bit is a lost cause.