Cuckoo in the nest

[LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand]

Hi folks. I'm particularly looking for advice from people who know care regulations in Scotland.
It's looking increasingly likely that mum will be going to a care home in the future. She has been in hospital for eight weeks and is waiting for a bed in a local community hospital where they will assess her. She's doubly incontinent, can't stand or walk and has basically given up. So the chat about a care home is probable. She owns her own flat and there is no poa in place - she refused.
The issue is, my alcoholic brother moved in fifteen years ago. He had a breakdown on London and came back and lived with my parents, despite my dad's reservations. My brother hasn't paid a penny towards bills or maintenance. He has a sizeable pension and a lump sum which will have increased as he pays for nothing - enabled by mum. He is not someone you can talk to about anything demanding as he walks away. I could go into many details but suffice it to say, mum's flat will need to be sold if she has to go into a care home. Here's the problem: two different people have said that it can't be sold if he can prove he's lived there for over ten years or has a medical condition. I absolutely need to be prepared for this and find out legally what the regulations are but I thought I would ask here first.

I know that there are certain situations whereby a home cannot be sold due to a dependent/disabled person also lives there. It would depend how long I would think. You would be better to telephone the admin department of your local social service department. They should be able to give you precise information.

Thank you Olderme. I hadn't thought about Social Services.

I’m n England so it may be different but that was the situation when my brother lived with my dad who had dementia. Brother has long term mental illness and like your brother was somewhat enabled by my parents. Social services told me Dad’s house could not be sold while brother was there as he was classed as a dependent adult.
Having said that, a rather hard nosed care home manager informed me the house could be subject to a forced sale to release cash, some of it used to buy a flat for brother and the rest used for dad’s residential care. In the event the house never needed to be sold as dad died before that became necessary ( and bro inherited the house).

TheGander thank you. It is my worry that your scenario will happen here too. I think when the time comes, I'll have to contact SS. At the moment, I don't even think he's paying bills while mum is in hospital but if I enquire, it'll become my responsibility which is how he deals with everything

Yes it’s a tricky one, I also found when I looked under a rock there was invariably stuff I didn’t like lurking there. I tried to strike a balance between dealing with matters and preserving my energies and sometimes leaving stuff aside until I could deal with it. In my brothers case not dealing with stuff has become a way of
life and his response to questions let alone challenges is 1) ignore/ obfuscate and if that doesn’t make me back off 2) get intimidating. I do what I can when necessary to keep him safe but I’m making it clear to MH professionals I have my own life.

Hmm complicated.

Do you need to take this on? Wouldn’t social services basically sort this out between themselves and your brother? As in, they will make the assessment as to whether he counts as a dependent adult or not, and from that decide if her house is to be sold and if so under what conditions? If there is no poa in place then you don’t actually ‘have’ to become responsible for anything unless you choose to. Let ss be the bad guys I guess.

what does your brother want / expect to do? does he expect to continue living in the house on his own? Are you under pressure from your mum to take over where she’s leaving off?

to answer your question, my MIL in Edinburgh went into nursing care straight from hospital. She was very similar to your mum, and there was no question of her going home. SS were very involved in the process though it was FiL that found that place in a home close to him - but SS did everything else. The house wasn’t sold as it’s jointly owned and fil still there, but I don’t think this made much difference to the choice of which home she went to.

My brother won't talk about anything. Given his past history, he will expect to stay in the flat, paying nothing as he has done for fifteen years. He will not engage with social services nor me as he dislikes me. The feeling is mutual because of appalling lack of care of mum. I will not support him as his life then would become my responsibility. Mum will defend him as she has done for years. However mum is not always lucid. It looks like social services might be necessary. Thank you for your help

Just hand it over to social services and refuse to be involved.

It may be that they put a charge against the flat so when DB dies/every moves out it will be sold then and pay the money back.

He will not engage with social services

This will not stop them assessing the situation. Or kicking him out if they find he has no legal rights to live there.

Your mum refused you POA. She refused to allow you legal responsibility to sort it out. So the solution is simple - wash your hands of it. It isn't your responsibility, in any way, to sort this out. Your mum did you a favour TBH.

So just stop worrying about it, it's literally nothing to do with you whether the place is sold or not, whether brother is kicked out or not, whether anyone pays utility bills and council tax or not.

Utility/council debts will be your mum's, not yours, and if she's in a care home with no income it doesn't matter if they take her to court and win even, they're still not getting paid. Her debts or CCJ's don't matter, she's not going to be applying for credit any time soon.

Don't even bother telling the utilities etc your mum's in a care home, you don't have to give them that information, it's nothing to do with you. If they send debt letters ignore them, they're your mum's letters, not yours. New owners can tell them she no longer lives there, it won't impact on them either because it's not their debts. If utilities are cut off that's your brother's issue to sort out if he's still living there or new owners issue to sort out when they move in.

Has your brother any diagnosed ongoing medical condition which might enable him to stay put or is he just a free loader. He's obviously held down a job in the past as he now has his lump sum and pension.

You will need to check the Scottish legal position re 10 years residence and whether what you have been told is true. Can he prove that he has lived there that long?

https://careinfoscotland.scot/topics/care-homes/paying-care-home-fees/property-disregard/

this link seems to provide some of the info you are looking for. If your brother is over 60, if he can claim that he provided a lot of care for your mum, if he’s receiving certain benefits or if he can otherwise convince ss that he should stay and the property be disregarded…

but I agree with the other posts: you don’t necessarily have to catch this ball even if it bounces towards you.

@Chocchops72

but I agree with the other posts: you don’t necessarily have to catch this ball even if it bounces towards you.

Absolutely this!

ChocChops thank you for the link. That is useful information and I wouldn't have known where to start. I appreciate it. You are absolutely right. I don't need to 'catch this ball.'