How do I stop my DF who has dementia taking out Equity Release?

[Jjcrackers]

My DF has early-mid stage dementia. He is terrible with money and keeps being scammed - we now have Power of Attorney so have managed to intercept most of them.

Recently he was approached by an Equity Release company and talked into releasing equity from his home - fortunately I spoke to him just before the 'advisor' was coming to visit and managed to cancel the appointment. Despite me explaining why this wasn't a good idea at the moment, he is convinced it is 'for tax reasons' (!).

My question is - what measures can I put in place to stop him taking out an equity release loan?

The house is registered on the Land Registry 'alerts' so we will be informed if there are enquiries on the property (i.e if a scammer has persuaded him to sell it). But, my understanding is that Equity Release is a loan so there is no need to for the company to contact Land Registry?

Does any one have any advice to ensure that he can't be 'persuaded' to take out a loan?

Thank you

[FrownedUpon]

He has the right to do this if he wants to though. Perhaps he needs the money. Are you worried about your inheritance?

[Fraaahnces]

Do you have financial power of attorney? If so, I believe you can overturn anything if he is considered medically unfit to sign anything. It’s time to have him assessed by his gerontologist re decision-making, etc.

[Nimbostratus100]

it is his choice, though, you cant prevent him if he is competent and he chooses to do this

[Muchtoomuchtodo]

This stage is difficult as while he may manage day to day decisions well he is vulnerable to being taken advantage of by unscrupulous people.
Do you think that he has the capacity to make this decision?
does he understand what it is, can he retain that information and weigh it up? Can he communicate his decision?
if not, as you have POA you need to be contacting the company, his bank etc and putting protection in place for him.

[Mocky]

What makes you think this is a bad idea, OP?

[Mamapiggywig]

He needs a mental capacity assessment by social care

[Clymene]

If you have LPA you can make decisions on his behalf if his doctor agrees he is no longer capable of making sound financial decisions.

[Jjcrackers]

I have no objection to him taking the money if he needs it. It is his but he doesn't need it at the moment.

He is very likely to need an increasing amount of care - once he is in that position we will be relying on the house to pay for it. I don't expect to come out with any inheritance as I expect most of the money will be spent on care -which is what it is there for.

On searching I also saw an article about the fact that scammers are now persuading elderly people to invest in fraud schemes using money from Equity Release. As he is on many scammer's lists this is another worry of mine.

[Namechange224422]

We had a similar situation to deal with and, after a lot of soul searching, removed a lot of financial autonomy in order to protect him. He was quite cross initially but actually taking away that responsibility reduced a lot of stress/anxiety which improved things massively overall.

We set things up so there were two bank accounts. The first, which he had no access to or information for, contained the majority of the money and had all bills etc set up on it on direct debit and all pensions coming in. The second account had no overdraft facility etc and contained a generous weekly amount (transferred from the first account) to cover food and spending. We tweaked as necessary to never leave two much in the second account. Any big expenses (eg new bathroom) we paid for from account 1.

At the same time we also removed all the things like deeds, bank details, insurance policies, wills etc from the house and put a piece of paper with a short statement about his condition, the fact that we had power of attorney, and our phone number into all of the physical files which we left behind.

Im not sure if that would stop equity release but I’m guessing that it can’t go ahead without proof of ownership of the house…

[GretaGood]

Are they knocking on his door or phoning him up?

Can you block the phone numbers - BT phones keep lists or recent calls.

[Jjcrackers]

@Namechange224422 Thank you. Removing the deeds is a good idea.

He is hugely objecting to removing all financial autonomy (I understand how humiliating this might is so I am sympathetic) but we do have LPA lodged with all the financial institutions who contact us if there are alarming transactions (this happens every week as he is on so many scammers lists)

But an Equity Release company - such as Age Partnership who contacted him - do not have the LPA so have no reason to contact us before progressing. But, as you say, hopefully they have to see the deeds.

[Jjcrackers]

@GretaGood Thank you for responding.

Age Partnership wrote to him and the followed up with a call. We have removed his landline but the next step is to try and change his mobile to try and prevent other scams (which happen weekly).

The doctor has agreed he doesn't have the capacity to make financial decisions or drive but he doesn't believe it so is very resistant to any suggestions to protect himself.

[Nimbostratus100]

can you install a ring doorbell and get him to make sure all visiters show their ID to the camera? You can keep track of who is visiting him like that maybe

[tailinthejam]

@Nimbostratus100

it is his choice, though, you cant prevent him if he is competent and he chooses to do this

He's not competent, he has dementia.

[GretaGood]

If you look up AGe Partnership their website claim they are the UK number one equity release advisor. 5 stars from Trustpilot, Investors in Customers God award 2022.

I would phone and write and email and inform them about what is happening and that your vulnerable father is being persuaded to do something not in his interest and you are writing to your MP, the woman in The Telegraph who has a financial problem page, Money Box on the BBC etc to flag up what is being done by their company - they def won't want bad publicity like that. Might be enough to stop it.

[Easterbunnywashere]

Deeds are completely unnecessary for modern property transactions - they have been superceded by the Land Registry so unless he has owned the house for a very long time and it is not registered, taking them will have no impact.

If he doesn't have capacity then it shouldn't be possible for him to arrange equity release but obviously that wont stop a scammer. I think the suggestion of a ring doorbell is probably the best one.

[GretaGood]

Gold award not god award

[MagiMagic]

Age Partners should have a Vulnerable customers policy. I wonder if it would be worth looking at.

[Fraaahnces]

@GretaGood - that could also turn into a legal minefield. I imagine they are sent similar letters by the disgruntled CF offspring of medically competent elderly people who are looking to book holidays or to upgrade their cars as well. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[Jjcrackers]

@Nimbostratus100 The ring doorbell is a good idea. Thank you.

[Soontobe60]

@tailinthejam

He's not competent, he has dementia.

A diagnosis of dementia doesn’t automatically assume someone is no longer competent - thats like saying someone who’s just been diagnosed with cancer will automatically die within a year!

[Jjcrackers]

@GretaGood Thank you I will speak to them.

[Soontobe60]

@GretaGood

If you look up AGe Partnership their website claim they are the UK number one equity release advisor. 5 stars from Trustpilot, Investors in Customers God award 2022.

I would phone and write and email and inform them about what is happening and that your vulnerable father is being persuaded to do something not in his interest and you are writing to your MP, the woman in The Telegraph who has a financial problem page, Money Box on the BBC etc to flag up what is being done by their company - they def won't want bad publicity like that. Might be enough to stop it.

You’re assuming that he has been cold called by this company.

[Heroicallyfound]

Age Partnerhsip do have a vulnerable customer policy (I work for a company who provides ER and Age are one of our biggest advisers - we require them to have vulnerability policies).

In theory if your dad doesn’t have capacity or shows any signs of vulnerability, that should be flagged by the adviser and the ER company. It’s tricky though because the companies can’t assume someone doesn’t have capacity.

The ER company will put a first charge on the property so you would get a Land Reg alert, though this would be when the loan is finalised so it’s a bit late then if you want to stop anything because as soon as he’s spent the money it’s difficult to undo everything.

If I were you, if you know he’s been speaking with Age I would write to them with a copy of the POA, a letter from his GP and your concerns so that they’re definitely on notice of his vulnerability. That would stand you in good stead in the event of your dad going ahead and you needing to make a complaint.

Regarding scams, ER companies in theory should have strong controls to identify customers who are planning on giving money to scams. But they can be difficult to identify at new business as your dad would just need to fill in a reason for the loan on the application form and he could put any old thing. But again, if you know your dad has applied with a company I would send the same information to that company so they’re on notice of his vulnerability too. In all likelihood they would stop/pause an application going through until they were 100% comfortable - though they might be in a tricky position too as again they can’t assume lack of capacity or put unreasonable sales barriers up. But it’s in their interests to be comfortable that he’s not being scammed and has capacity to make financial decisions as they won’t want to take on the risk otherwise.

[Felixss]

If he's had a capacity assessment and he lacks it you need to safeguard him. If he's so vulnerable to scams it might be that he can't live alone soon. Get a ring doorbell definitely, is he going out alone shopping etc ?