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Elderly parents

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Original poster

Obstinate Sister

21 replies

Icecreamlover63 · 12/03/2023 17:39

Maybe I could ask for help.
Father is in a care home. Eldest sister lives in a house with her family and I live with my partner and 4 kids. Our youngest sister still lives at home at 50.

There are some savings and just about enough to cover another 16 months at the care home.

Here is the problem, our sister doesn’t want to move out! But it’s not her home and the house needs to be used to pay for our Father’s care. He has tenants in common signed do only his 50% would be used to pay for the home. The rest is split between us girls!

My eldest sister says my youngest sister is wealthy enough to get her own flat and has sponged off our dad for years. I agree with this but equally I feel for my youngest sister having to move.
how would you try to resolve this? As the middle sibling I can see both sides

OP posts:

ImCrunchyOnTheOutside · 12/03/2023 17:48

People have to do things they don’t want to do all the time so your younger sister is being ridiculous, it isn’t her house, unless she can afford to buy it?

Bodybags · 12/03/2023 17:56

Watching with interest.
We have a relative who would be homeless if the parent went into a care home as the house would have to be sold to pay the fees.
Been told this repeatedly, still has zero plans in place.

Does anyone know if the house is willed to the resident child, would it still need to be sold to pay fees?

DisplayPurposesOnly · 12/03/2023 18:03

@Bodybags it depends if the resident child under 18, or over 60, or disabled:

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/

Original poster

Icecreamlover63 · 12/03/2023 18:09

our sister has almost 150k in savings and with her portion of the house would have enough to buy a flat cash.
She has shouted at my eldest sister and has changed the locks on our father’s house!
all we have done is offer to help her and she has now gone and slagged both of us off to her various friends. How do I know, because one of them phoned me and was confused. My middle sister said lots of awful things that weren’t true and this friend thinks she is being influenced by her none to pleasant boyfriend! This is the boyfriend she has been with for over 10 years but doesn’t want her moving in with him.
quite honestly I’m sick of the whole thing.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 12/03/2023 18:16

Has your Dad a social worker? Let them sort out the legal side.

I thought that care homes would put a charge on the house and then force sale when the person dies?

Ultimately you need to force sale of the home fairly soon and she will have to pay her own legal fees as well as a share of the the overall ones if she fights it.

Piffle11 · 12/03/2023 18:19

Bodybags · 12/03/2023 17:56

Does anyone know if the house is willed to the resident child, would it still need to be sold to pay fees?

I would have thought the house would need to be sold: the person named in the Will does not own it until the current owner dies.

Bodybags · 12/03/2023 20:38

Bodybags it depends if the resident child under 18, or over 60, or disabled:

49, No disability and works full time on a good wage, no savings, pays zero towards the house/board.

Flowersinmai · 12/03/2023 20:54

Surely the resolution is that the house will need to be sold. Or your sister evicted? Id imagine she has no legal right to change the locks?
It’s probably time to get some legal advice. Or at least speak to Age Uk.
Or maybe a legal agreement where your sister uses a portion of her savings to pay for your Dads care. But eventually the House will be need to be sold. I’m sorry. Sounds like a bit mess.

LindorDoubleChoc · 12/03/2023 21:01

Your middle sister doesn't have a leg to stand on unfortunately. Doesn't matter who the house goes to in your father's will (do you know?) if it has to be sold to pay for his care then that's what has to happen.

Does your middle sister have SEN? If not I cannot fathom how she doesn't understand this.

RudsyFarmer · 12/03/2023 21:04

the house needs to go on the market. Does it requires everyone’s agreement legally?

trulyunruly01 · 12/03/2023 21:19

So you and your sisters collectively already own 50%?
Two things occur to me
In 16 months your father may have deteriorated to the point that his funding may be covered entirely from continuing health care rather than social services
And if it doesn't, then it may be that the local authority put a legal charge on the property so that on his death his share is used to pay off the care bill (and if your dsis wishes, she could use her savings to pay it and buy you and other sis out).
Sorry about your dad's deteriorating health

clairea123 · 13/03/2023 03:27

Does your Dad have capacity?
Who (if anyone) has a power of attorney in place?
How much is the house worth- could you sister buy out your dad’s 50%?

MichelleScarn · 13/03/2023 03:33

clairea123 · 13/03/2023 03:27

Does your Dad have capacity?
Who (if anyone) has a power of attorney in place?
How much is the house worth- could you sister buy out your dad’s 50%?

Would she not need to buy the dads 50% plus sibling's 2/3 of their 50%?

Original poster

Icecreamlover63 · 13/03/2023 12:51

The sister who lives at home has been thoroughly spoilt all her life. Every job she has been in either my eldest sister or myself have got her. She has been given cars! Our dad also put 30k away for her and not either of us. My dad felt sorry for her.
she has been engaged twice and broke up both relationships.

My husband says she is like a 50 year old baby. Ultimately the legal side will ensue and she will have no choice.

I have contacted my works solicitor and she said that she cannot change the locks without our permission.
I have also checked all the will
over and it’s water tight.

do you think it’s best to let the dust settle and then approach this situation one more time?
My sister wants to go the legal route but I feel it’s worth one more attempt especially as we have all the information now.

OP posts:

BreadInCaptivity · 13/03/2023 13:00

There is no reason for you to do anything right now.

When your fathers savings start to approach capital limits (£23,250), so when you get to about £40k you need to contact social services and ask for a financial and eligibility review.

They will most likely conclude (unless there's some vital info you have missed) that your DF is eligible for care, but that should be self funded due to the value of the house which should be sold or your DF's equity released by other means.

In short you can let them (SS) fight this battle with the sister living in the house rather than you and your other sibling being involved.

Original poster

Icecreamlover63 · 13/03/2023 13:07

BreadInCaptivity · 13/03/2023 13:00

There is no reason for you to do anything right now.

When your fathers savings start to approach capital limits (£23,250), so when you get to about £40k you need to contact social services and ask for a financial and eligibility review.

In short you can let them (SS) fight this battle with the sister living in the house rather than you and your other sibling being involved.

I agree. However I was hoping to stop any bad feelings and try to resolve it before it comes to that. It’s a horrible situation to find yourself in.

OP posts:

Honeyroar · 13/03/2023 13:17

It doesn’t sound like it will resolve though, does it? Your sister that is living there isn’t acting logically, fairly or legally.

rampila · 13/03/2023 14:30

This sounds awful - I'm sorry you're going through this. Agree with the others who say that SS will lead this and sell the house etc.

RandomMess · 13/03/2023 15:06

Absolutely worth trying mediation before initiating the legal process.

Original poster

Icecreamlover63 · 28/03/2023 20:12

Well an update to this thread.
We have gone down and spoken to our sister and shown her the will and also shown her the amount of money we have left. I really don’t think she understands it. She seems traumatised by it all. However she doesn’t understand that we are all grieving and sad. It’s just her entitlement of sadness that astounds me.

Anyway she has agreed to get keys for us but we must ask if we can go round first (I don’t have a problem with this). She also agreed to put the house up for sale once we are all back from holiday, so I’m guessing September.

After listening to my sister I think she is just angry at the situation but there is nothing we can do about it. I’m tired and fed up with it now. Its unnecessary behaviour and it didn’t need to be this way.
Once this is over I honestly don’t know if I can be civil with my sister I am just so upset by her rudeness and just nastiness!
I suppose I really want to know if it’s ever possible to get past a family issue like this x

OP posts:

HeddaGarbled · 28/03/2023 20:26

I think you need to put aside the old entrenched sibling resentments and reframe it.

”Been sponging off him for years” could be reframed as “been his companion in his twilight years”.

”She is angry at the situation” could be reframed as “she is devastated at the situation”.

Families are notorious for labelling their members based on historic behaviour and prejudices. None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. But very few of us are as one-dimensional as our family myths would have us.

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