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Elderly parents

Please help

25 replies

Sux2buthen · 12/02/2023 18:34

My mum is 69 and has various health problems that ultimately mean she's bed/ chair/ housebound.
Diabetic, osteoporosis, arthritis, COPD and currently covid.
Almost no mobility at all.
My dad and brother live there and they take on all the care day in day out.
Dad is 75 and also has covid.
Brother is 40's.
Today she was taken to hospital she was delirious, it's happened before and always been infections. Sent home after fluids and pain relief.
Then I went round and she collapsed, the three of us were barely able to lift her onto her chair, once again delirious.
Paramedics came, all her tests they did were ok but they wanted her in for her mobility. I know the results were ok but this confusion is always found to be infection I'm so worried.
She refused.
They've had to leave her in her bed.
She's now delirious again.
My dad and brother are struggling now, if she falls again they cannot lift her. She's broken both her legs twice from barely slipping.
I'm extremely worried, she's refusing help and my family cannot cope.
What the hell do I do?

OP posts:
Sux2buthen · 12/02/2023 18:35

I don't just mean today, I mean my brother and dad are at breaking point they can't leave the house because if she slips it takes 2 to move her and they can't even do that now.

OP posts:
Suzi888 · 12/02/2023 18:40

I’m sorry, that sounds hard.

I would contact adult social services in the morning, along with her G.P. It sounds like she needs to go in to a nursing home or she needs carers to come in.

PritiPatelsMaker · 12/02/2023 18:41

Has she got a SW @Sux2buthen?

Suzi888 · 12/02/2023 18:42

The more you say you’ll do at home, the less help you’ll receive. She needs to be admitted to hospital and your dad has to say he cannot provide care for her anymore .. sadly.

Sux2buthen · 12/02/2023 18:42

No she hasn't.
She had carers when she broke her legs but that ended and she wanted dad to do it.
I think nursing home would be out of the question, but obviously not my choice to make.

OP posts:
Sux2buthen · 12/02/2023 18:49

Suzi888 · 12/02/2023 18:42

The more you say you’ll do at home, the less help you’ll receive. She needs to be admitted to hospital and your dad has to say he cannot provide care for her anymore .. sadly.

He won't do that. I'm worried where this ends up, for all of us. But my brother especially. He's struggling.
I live very close but single mum if 3 and it's hard to be able to help.
Most of the time she's coherent and happy it's when this kind of thing strikes it blows up.
She's too well generally to need a care home, I truly think carers are the least worst option. I just don't know where to start

OP posts:
PritiPatelsMaker · 12/02/2023 18:49

Why would a Nursing Home be out of the question @Sux2buthen? Do you mean the cost or that she wouldn't go?

It really does sound as though she needs a Hospital admission. What did she do when the Paramedics were there? Why didn't they take her?

Sucessinthenewyear · 12/02/2023 18:55

If she is of sound mind then she can refuse. Have your Dad and brother told her they can’t cope and she needs to go to hospital? Try ringing adult safe guarding and explain she has had an unsafe discharge from hospital - our hospital has a nurses who will visit to access in this situation. The other thing you can try tomorrow is getting her GP to speak to her and to tell her she must go into hospital.

PinkPupZ · 12/02/2023 18:58

Has she got a falls alarm service? Is there a crisis response team in the area?

Tulipvase · 12/02/2023 19:02

I think you need to ask for an occupational therapist to do an urgent assessment.

In my area you can self refer, look on the LA website and it should be signposted.

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 12/02/2023 19:03

As long as your dad and brother struggle along she will keep refusing care. What exactly are they doing for her when she is ill? What did they do/say when she refused to go in to hospital?

I’m afraid you’re all going to have to change your response to her if you want he to accept care and to keep her safe. So don’t pick her up when she falls, call an ambulance - she may be uncomfortable on the floor and if it’s busy she may have to wait but she is safe there and she’ll get a decent assessment from the ambulance crew. What other care are they doing for her that they can step back from?

LadySeafish · 12/02/2023 19:04

Has she caught COVID? When my elderly Dad had it he struggled to keep balance and also couldn't do anything - I had to.learn.how a catheter works very fast! And he had worrying nightmares.

It.was.lucky he was with us at the time but all.these things you don't hear of. He also had the traditional cold symptoms and fever.

Sux2buthen · 12/02/2023 19:05

Sorry I am reading replies my brain is in overload, I will respond. I appreciate every comment, Thankyou

OP posts:
Sux2buthen · 13/02/2023 08:35

Thankyou all so much for commenting. I've been up half the night talking to my brother and reading things online, I think we will start with the GP today (or try to) and go from there.
Mum won't be receptive to discuss anything until the covid confusion has passed so we will have to get through that first as well. They said she can have antivirals if not better by Friday (Confused) . She will be horrified to think she's been unhelpful but I will talk to her about it.
I can't help at their house all the time but I can certainly try and help get this more manageable for my family. I think she keeps dad going and if she wasn't there with him it would be a bad thing for them both.
Thanks for the support, the advice is good and actually calmed me down

OP posts:
dfkdfc · 13/02/2023 08:42

Tulipvase · 12/02/2023 19:02

I think you need to ask for an occupational therapist to do an urgent assessment.

In my area you can self refer, look on the LA website and it should be signposted.

This. Once an assessment has taken place, they will help get a package in place.

Hope all is okay

mumonthehill · 13/02/2023 08:47

Speak to Age Uk as well and look tp get attendance allowance. This might mean they could pay for a cleaner etc and take pressure off you dad and brother. Ultimately she needs to be assessed and you as a family need to be honest about the impact looking after is having. If your dad and brother get ill who will look after her? Carers coming in would be a good first step.

Littlelighttonight · 13/02/2023 08:54

I'm so sorry OP...this is such a hard stage of life.

When your mum is better, I'd suggest you have a 'family meeting'. Explain to your mum that you all need help and you can't continue as you are. Then (hopefully with her agreement), contact Adult Social Services and ask for a needs assessment. There are things they can do, such as add grab rails round the house, provide mobility aids etc.

Secondly, see if you can persuade mum to get a lifeline/falls alarm. She can wear it round her neck (under her clothes) or as a bracelet. If they're anything like the service we have for my dad, they're brilliant. On the few occasions he's had a fall, they've been out within 15 minutes and have got him upright with inflatable cushions. He pays about £20 a month for it. Invaluable and gives a peace of mind for when he's home alone.

When we first arranged carers for my dad, he was willing to try but was resistant. After a few weeks it stopped becoming strange and he now really likes it. He's got good, fun relationships with a few of them and can have a laugh. It IS a big adjustment having people come into your home but your mum can't adjust for sure.

I totally understand the feeling of being crushed and broken by this worry and responsibility. With a little cooperation from your mum, there is hope.

Littlelighttonight · 13/02/2023 08:55

Your mum CAN adjust, not can't. 🤦🏻‍♀️

TheLadyofShalott1 · 13/02/2023 09:41

@Sux2buthen I'm so sorry that you and your family are going through this, I have experienced it from both sides, and it is terrible. The most obvious infection that can cause horrendous confusion/delirium is a urine infection. Your DM could have one alongside Covid, and if she has a catheter, or has to wear adult pads, she is very likely to get urine infections. Another "big" cause of confusion can be dehydration, and urine infections and dehydration, often go together. If the dehydration gets too bad then the patient has to be hospitalised to make sure that - paradoxically - they don't get rehydrated too quickly, which can also cause serious problems.

If your DM is not on antibiotics for a urine infection it sounds like it should definitely be considered and checked for. If your DM isn't catheterised, but is delirious, then it will probably be almost impossible for any of you to get a urine sample - you would probably need either a community nurse, or one in the hospital, to do a quick in and out catheterisation, to get a urine sample from her bladder. Even if a sample can be got, there isn't time to wait for the result, your DM would need to be put on an antibiotic straight away. If a Dr - who really must make a home visit this time (I know) thinks her symptoms are bad enough, then she may need to be in hospital to have intravenous antibiotics.

If she is delirious for any reason, then she isn't up to making decisions in her own best interest, for now, so her next of kin - your DDad? - or you, or your brother, may unfortunately need to push for her hospitalisation at the moment. As soon as she is better you can all - or maybe just you and your brother if your DDad would find it too hard - gently but firmly, explain to her that she really does need carers at home, or to go into a nursing home; as a similar sounding woman to your mother, I know which I would choose. Carers coming in can be annoying for all who live there, but hopefully it would be preferable to your DM going into a home.

I know that the Health Service is on it's knees, but did the hospital really send her home without taking a urine sample, and giving her antibiotics? The paramedics who went to her house today, could check her temperature, her blood pressure, her Oxygen levels, and even give her a heart trace if they thought it was necessary (if they didn't do the first 3 then they are incompetent - but they will have done them), but presumably they couldnt take a urine test, and even if they did, it could show up certain things that can be indicators, but not what infection your DM might have.

I was in hospital last year with a very bad urine infection, that they didn't treat for ages because all my vital signs were fine, even though I was in a lot of pain, and they didn't believe my pain at first because all of my initial readings looked good. It took another 7 to 8 hours until I got a massive rise in temperature, and my other signs started dropping.I was in hospital for days before my intravenous antibiotics started to get the better of my infection.

Despite all that I have said here, please don't panic @Sux2buthen, that was me, and then, and there. Your DM could, and hopefully is no-where near as bad as me, you don't even know whether she has a urine infection or not. I just don't want you or anyone else to think it is "just a urine infection", as with vunerable people of any sort (and unfortunately some otherwise very healthy ones) untreated urine infections can lead to Kidneys packing up, and or Sepsis, so if there is any chance your DM does have one, it must be treated.

FictionalCharacter · 13/02/2023 09:49

LadySeafish · 12/02/2023 19:04

Has she caught COVID? When my elderly Dad had it he struggled to keep balance and also couldn't do anything - I had to.learn.how a catheter works very fast! And he had worrying nightmares.

It.was.lucky he was with us at the time but all.these things you don't hear of. He also had the traditional cold symptoms and fever.

OP said in the first post that her mother and father both have Covid.

TallulahBetty · 13/02/2023 09:53

Does she claim AA? And do you have POA? I would get both of these done asap

Sux2buthen · 13/02/2023 10:09

I've spoken to her this morning she's much more with it than yesterday and promised to stay in bed!
They're giving her antivirals today now, that's something.
I share POA with my brother and for some reason step cousin Hmm.
I've had a talk to her a little bit about things but only to gently plant a seed about listening to us and remembering how fear can stress us when she's like that.
I can hear how happy dad is that she's a bit better but I'm going to dive in with looking for help regardless as I know shortly they'll be back in denial that any help is needed! And my brother will do the same.
I'm on the case

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EyesOnThePies · 13/02/2023 14:54

Well done OP.

Attendance Allowance is not means tested, and comes as a sim of money to spend on whatever could make life easier. The firm is daunting, but if you or your brother fill it in with your Mum, it is important to answer the questions as if it was her worst, most difficult days, and without any assistance from family. My Mum ticked loads of ‘yes’ boxes and I went through and corrected them to no 🙄.

As PP have said, a Care Needs assessment by Adult Services will establish whether she could be entitled to help from visiting Carers. The LA will not pay for this if your Mum (not mum and dad combined) has over £23k in savings, but it is often useful to know what their assessment is. And they can point you to a falls alert service etc.

While ever your Dad insists he can cope, he is potentially enabling what could be an unsafe situation for your Mum. Telling the LA that he cannot help doesn’t mean that in reality he wouldn’t. It may help to explain to your Dad (and Mum) that when it is needed the assistance of a visiting carer to help with showering etc can actually ensure that they are able to stay together, independently, for longer.

It’s a tough transition, getting elderly relatives to recognise the need for outside care and to accept it but it makes such a difference!

EyesOnThePies · 13/02/2023 14:55

(Not that your Mum is particularly elderly)

Sux2buthen · 13/02/2023 18:14

Thankyou Flowers
I've made some progress with talking to mum and my brother, I'm off work this week so it's perfectly timed to monitor things and talk about next steps.
We've all calmed down a bit, I was panicking yesterday I don't mind admitting!

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