Hospital want discharge and just told DM has Covid

[Lorrymum]

My DM went into hospital on Christmas Eve. She had fallen but fortunately no broken bones. However X-rays showed historic fractures and she also has digestion issues and dementia. She has gone from being fairly mobile to not being able to walk. Today we were told she now has covid.
Hospital are very keen to send her home and we have (sister and I) spoken to various people in hospital all with different opinions. We have now been told she will be home on Saturday. We are not convinced that she is well enough but hospital feel that she will cope if she sleeps downstairs with a commode and carers visiting twice daily. We have to arrange both a commode and for a suitable bed to be installed but haven't a clue who to contact or how this can all be done before Saturday.
Do elderly people still require proper care plan before discharge? This all feels rushed and not properly thought through.

The hospital discharged my mother after a pelvis fracture saying she could walk and make a cup of tea. She arrived with a frame but totally unable to mobilise. I had no experience of the system at all. They had assumed my sister and I would take over.
it was a completely unsafe discharge. Luckily there were enough funds available to get private carer to live in. But still required the 2 of us to do more than we wanted. It was a nightmare tbh and I learnt a lot about what not to do.

covid wise I know a few people who although not hospitalised have been very unwell recently with covid. All with at least 4 jabs

We will just have to see how things unfold.
Hospital has been dreadful at communicating. She has been on three different wards in 2 weeks. I appreciate they are busy but they would save so much time if they talked to families. Never had calls returned, never had a prognosis, spoken to staff who didnt know what was happening. We were told she had a blockage in her gullet but too risky to operate. No other information. Although they could manage to ring four times (different people) to inform us she was coming home.
Perhaps if would help we understood the system but hospital systems are a complete mystery. Different coloured clothing for staff, no one "in charge" never any doctor to speak to.
Total farce.

Perhaps if would help we understood the system but hospital systems are a complete mystery. Different coloured clothing for staff, no one "in charge" never any doctor to speak to

Our local Hospital has a board in Reception and in each ward with the explanations of the Uniforms, if they don't have they where your DM is, you could always ask at Reception.

The Sister will be in charge of the Ward for their shift, so if you're dining for updates you could ask to speak to the Sister?

I think a lot of posters on here don’t quite understand what hospitals are contending with at the moment. They can’t be everything to everyone. They’re not rehabilitation facilities, and the scarily ageing population has suddenly landed an avalanche of frail people with multiple conditions at their door. Other patients with greater need have to take priority over somebody that just needs rest or to ‘see how it goes’. To imply this is the staff’s fault is deeply unfair. We simply don’t have the resources to care for every last need of the elderly to the level some of you seem to expect.

I don't think anyone is blaming the staff @Cuppasoupmonster.

Almost every member of staff that we've dealt with this year, including multiple admissions for the PILS and even one for me, have gone above and beyond. They've been utterly fantastic.

It's the system that's broken.

slightly bizarre that you don't think hospitals offer rehab anymore @Cuppasoupmonster what do all the AHP's do in your trust?!? I agree its very important to get anyone with dementia back to their own environment asap but sending an elderly person home too soon without full assessment of their needs just leads to revolving doors and if there's a falls risk that leads to a fracture it will just mean a heck of a longer hospital stay next time. @Lorrymum interested in how this pans out I don't think I've ever had a patient go from immobile to being fully mobile including safe on stairs in 2 days!!

@Cuppasoupmonster
@2022again

Actually I work on an elderly rehab ward! That's exactly what the patients come to us for... rehab!

I did mean A&E!

@Cuppasoupmonster but the op's mum isn't in a&e, she's on a ward..

Going through a pretty similar situation . District nurse told us to use the term "unsafe discharge" at every turm . (Even with a large family pitching in we couldnt cope/manage )
Hospital social worker and team stepped in , my parent is now medicaly fit but due to dementia unsafe discharge still stands.
Untill an approprire nursing home place/dementia care package is found she will remain in hospital.
Should add this whole process involves an extraordinary level of commitment/admin and fight to stand your ground and not be fobbed off. Wishing you well x

I think you had very good advice there @Mocara

DFIL did have an unsafe discharge at Easter, Sepsis hadn't cleared, falls risk, terminal cancer. Was back in after 3 days with another fall and sepsis.

After that admission we talked to the Discharge Clerk daily, took her treats in and mentioned unsafe discharge a couple of times. They sorted him out with an absolutely brilliant placement until he was able to go home

Just refuse, OP. Refuse to do anything to facilitate this. When you say she’s coming home, who’s driving her? Are they sending her home in an ambulance? Patient transport? Does she have house keys? Food available? Milk and bread? Obviously, morally, you want to do the right thing by your mum, but legally, no social worker can make you attend to her. I would grey rock the lot of them and they will have to come up with a better and more suitable solution.

I was called in by a desperate man the other day. His elderly friend had been discharged with no need for care as able to mobilise. Only the poor fucker couldn't move without falling and couldn't stand when he did. The desperate bloke was his friend, who'd driven 2 hours when his friend had managed to reach his phone after a night on the floor.

I took over on Christmas eve, when desperate man had to leave after waiting 12 hours for help. It took 3 phone calls to 111, 2 to 999, 2 to social services and 1 to the police to get anyone to him. The entire time, he was stuck on a fetid, urine soaked floor; he'd clearly not washed for long time and been forced to soil himself rather than move for days. It took 25 hours for help to come. The house was too unsafe for my DC, so much of that was just me popping in to check he was still alive (single parent).

He was considered perfectly fine to discharge without help though... Discharge ideas are all out of whack currently. Argue hard for what is actually needed, and don't trust what they say she can do alone.

In the summer FIL had 3 unsafe discharges in 4 weeks. He never spent more than 4 days at home before another ambulance was needed (now indeed they are so busy!). He died 2 days after the last admission. He had stage 4 cancer affecting his bones, unstable diabetes, atrial fibrillation couldn't get out of bed or a chair without assistance and picked up covid in hospital. We were away for the first 3 discharges and couldn't visit the ward due to restrictions anyway to see for ourselves. He died 2 days after the last admission having added a urine infection and sepsis to the list.
When dad was in hospital for the last time we had one doctor saying he definitely needed to go into a care home and another saying he would be fine with 4 visits and my mum who has alzheimers looking after him. Mum hadn't even noticed he had delirium and my brother called the ambulance when he visited.

So my sister has just had a call from a carer to say she is at Mum's house and cannot find Mum. Mum is still in hospital! Hospital had obviously given carers my sisters telephone number without permission, so much for data protection. Food delivery services only have skeleton staff to deal with cancellations. My sister has put some ready meals in the fridge.
It is heart breaking to read all the stories I have seen on this thread. Through no fault of there own elderly people are regarded as bed blockers even when ill and needing medical treatment. I have no idea what the answer is.

I'm afraid very often it is their own fault. So many fail to prepare for old age, insist on still living in unsuitable living accommodation, falling about and refusing to pay for carers. I saw it as a district nurse and as an in patient.
So many avoidable incidents which land them in hospital time and time again.

No one wants to say it.

But elderly people dont want to go into a care home.

So as soon as they are ill, even just a chest infection that means they are bed bound, it means they aren't safe to be home.

Arranging carers at short notice in a few hours is impossible and even 2 or 4 care visits a day wont be enough if their mobility has worsened. Family are usually miles away if they are even on the scene.

So rather than a calm discussion with family, and future care needs assessed. Its usually an emergency admission because they cant cope at home. Usually the mobility doesn't improve and they likely need care planning on discharge. And the hospital have to arrange the care in emergency circumstances.

No one who is managing to cope living alone wants to go into a care home. A lot are in denial of their care needs, may even be living in abysmal conditions but dont want to think about their care arrangements.

And you cant force people to go into a care home, so its left to the NHS to make emergency arrangements when the shit hits the fan.

Unfortunately often the elderly are deteriorating for months prior to a hospital admission. And it’s left up to an acute hospital trust to pick up the pieces as family live far away or sometimes don’t live in the country.

If elderly family members are struggling we need to put measures in place and not expect the state to do it. Although I suspect it’s because the family don’t want to pay (and loose out on inheritance) and (mistakenly) think that if the hospital arrange it, then it will be free and I think in the west the elderly are seen as a burden but in other cultures elderly family members will live with their children but in the Uk we expect others to take care of the elderly for £10 per hour and the state should pay for EVERYTHING whilst their children visit once a week (if that) and complain

@RedRobyn101 in my experience the family are pushing for the elderly relatives to make the necessary changes but the relatives don't think they are necessary. My mum has alzheimer's but like many sufferers is oblivious of the problems because she can't remember the chaos that follows in her wake. She is convinced she is managing fine because she can't remember everything we do for her. You can't blame her, it's a feature of her illness.

@RedRobyn101 for family you know that means women right?

@RedRobyn101 Because families did as the Tories fucking wanted and all went out to work so a bit late to whine now that the reckoning has to be paid

And many of my contemporaries are reducing hours/downgrading their grading &pay/taking early retirement in order to support elderly parents, and yet the government is targeting my exact demographic to get back to work.

@RedRobyn101 this was the wrong thread/forum for your rant. The people on here are stretching themselves to the point of breaking to support their parents. A little more reading the room is in order.

Mum is now back in hospital awaiting surgery for a broken hip. The discharge was a disaster.

Oh lorrymum I am so sorry to hear that.

How long did she last at home @Lorrymum before she fell again? I'm sorry for her, you and your sister that you're all going through this again.