I could use some helpful advice on dealing with passive-aggressive martyrism

[BlackAmericanoNoSugar]

My Mum is generally fine but when she's in a bad mood or ill she's prone to being an extreme martyr. Thing is, I remember her mother being the same when I was young and it drove Mum fucking insane, and now she's doing it to me. Just to emphasise this is not all the time just intermittent, but I never see it coming or know how to handle it when it happens.

At the moment she has hurt her arm and can't drive, which is obviously annoying for her. She lives in a remote location so can't walk or use public transport. My DB and I have been sorting out the basics for her, we're quite efficient at it because we got used to it during the lockdowns. I haven't been able to physically see her for about 10 days because I've had a virus and she doesn't want to catch it. I phone her fairly regularly, every two or three days, and every time it's "Oh you've contacted me, I didn't think you would. I could have been lying dead for days and you wouldn't have known." But she never needs anything or has much to say except "I don't know why you even phoned, you don't have any news for me".

This morning she phoned because she wanted to pay my friend for dog sitting while she was away (she would normally pay when she picks up her dog, but she came back from holiday with a sore arm so my friend dropped the dog up instead). I said "No problem, I can Revolut the money right now and you can pay me back at the weekend" and she totally went off at me "No, that's not what I want at all, but never mind, I'll sort it out myself like usual". I said that it was just a suggestion and if she wants to do it another way then we can do that. She said "No, no, you just do your own thing, don't mind about me, I don't matter to anyone." Then hung up.

She and I have a very different personality type and way of communicating. It's always been a bit of an issue. She's the type who drops hints and expects people to understand what she means. She would hardly ever be direct, but gets pissed off if people do things that she doesn't want. I'm useless at getting the gist or taking a hint, and not much better at understanding what's going on in someone's mind if they are masking their real feelings. When we were getting DS diagnosed with ASD I did the questionnaire (I think in the Baron-Cohen book) and scored right up in the overlap between the two curves for people diagnosed with ASD and people not diagnosed. So I suspect that someone who was different from me would understand what it is that the wants before she gets to the losing her temper stage. When she was younger we both tried hard to be tolerant of the each other's ways and it mostly worked (once I'd outgrown teenager-hood), but of course she was more independent all the time until recently, now she is older she is more likely to be tired or in pain or injured.

I need tips and tricks to anticipate her needs and moods without blow-ups, because they really upset me.

Sorry, that was much longer than I thought it was going to be.

You'll probably never be able to get it "right". She wouldn't be able to moan then.

You could try being extremely jolly about everything, whatever she says. It might make you feel better? Smile while you talk on phone to her. Difficult I know

I agree she has a hugely frustrating attitude to anything and everything.

Sadly, she's pretty unlikely to change how she reacts now.

Someone told me once, what she's really saying with her sarcasm is - make me young again!

How old is she? I ask because she doesn't sound elderly just lonely.

Aaargh! It's not a you problem OP! She wants to maon and as you say, she too has been driven potty by this kind of behaviour. It does suggest the 'learned it at her mother's knee' somewhat.

I do try to lighten the modd when various of my family members get a bit like this (though they don't really direct it at me, just the wrold in general, so its easier I admit). Can you laugh the comments off and say 'don't talk soft' and reflect back to her on he practiciality not the invented slight? So after the fuss about your Revolut suggestion: "So you're fine to do it yourself, is that right? Great!" To the 'lying dead for days "Well very happy you're not dead mum! how's the arm?"

So: anticipate the empotional blackmail nonsense and stick scrupulously to taking her remarks as factual, drain them of the impolied emotional content, and respopnd factually and cheefully. If she is seeking a particular kind of emoptional support for example (that you ring on set days so she is confident you will be calling, or whatever,) SHE needs to ask for them directly.

Ignore hints. She needs to own what she wants from you, and articulate it clearly, not try to make you guess it, so she can then tell you you got it wrong. Keep tapping the ball back into her court.

She's 82, and she has only recently started to consider herself 'elderly'. She has been finding that one thing a day is enough, so one lunch or one garden club meeting etc, she will still do two activities in a day sometimes but finds it tiring. She has a great social life generally, better than mine, but she needs to drive for it so she is definitely lonely now until her arm is better. She travels the world, at least two or three trips a year to far flung places like the Easter Island and Antartica. The most recent trip was a river cruise and she tripped and hurt her arm while there. She has a trip booked for December that might need to be cancelled if she still in pain when it's due. I can definitely empathise that she has gone from lots going on to almost back to a lockdown state and that it's both boring and painful for her, but I can't help her if she's just pushing me away with insults all the time.

I suppose in the one scenario you gave you could have just waited to hear exactly what she wanted before coming up with your own solution.

I left out the start of the conversation which was (after the usual 'I might be dead and no-one would know' bit), "Will you be seeing X tomorrow?" She knows that I meet up with X every week as we do an activity together. I said "I'll see her on Thursday". To which she said "That's no good, I need to pay her for looking after X tomorrow." So she was already pissed off with me and I was trying to solve it.

The thing is, when she's in a good mood, me paying X on her behalf would have been a great solution for her. She would have said thanks and that would have been the end of it. She's 90% rational and reasonable and 10% impossible to please.

“Oh my goodness, did you hear that? I thought it was your mother talking! You sound JUST LIKE HER”.

😂That would go down like a lead balloon. It's always on the tip of my tongue but would definitely make everything infinitely worse.

There's nothing you can do but mentally roll your eyes I'm afraid.

My grandmother was EXACTLY like this. I went for not reacting the emotional blackmail, and clear statements she couldn't misread eg:

"Oh you've contacted me, I didn't think you would. I could have been lying dead for days and you wouldn't have known."
"Yes, phoning you as I said I would ☺️, now how's that arm?" (Ignore dead comment)

"I don't know why you even phoned, you don't have any news for me".
"I phoned because I love you and wanted to catch up. Not much going on in my life though, you're right! Would you prefer we talk less often" (ignore implied criticism)

"No, that's not what I want at all, but never mind, I'll sort it out myself like usual"
"Okay, let me know if there's anything I can do to help" (ignore emotional drama)

"No, no, you just do your own thing, don't mind about me, I don't matter to anyone." (Hung up)
I would just call back at my next normal time. If she seemed super distressed I would occasionally text something like "you matter very much to me. Let me know if I can do anything concrete. Will call you on Tuesday"

In short - it's a kind of push pull attachment pattern aiming to get the most attention, care and emotional investment from everyone. The way to respond is to 1) provide boundaries (eg not call every night) 2) not lean into the drama 3) promote that care for her is a standard thing, not affected by her behaviour either way (doesn't get you anything to be this emotional)

She's an adult and can use her words. As someone has already said, take everything at face value, ignore hints, sighs and hidden meanings, don't try and guess that she means B when she says A. I had twenty years of playing silly games and then I refused to play any more. "I'll sort it out myself" would get "ok then" rather than my attempt to bend over backwards and deliver the earth, moon and stars rather than feel the guilt of letting her down. She can ask for what she needs using actual words and then you can say whether you can or cannot do it.

"Guess how to please me" is a game you can't win, the only thing to do is not to play.

This I’d record her doing it and play it back to her - although she’d probably hit the roof.

so maybe not 😂

in this situation if she was rude about me ringing I’d say ‘telephone is plugged in your end too and you can ring - if you will be this rude I won’t ring you’ - although this could spark a family feud

but the old MN ask her to repeat herself and then ask if she meant to be rude and grey rock

you can also meet her face to face and point out how rude she is being - you don’t have to help her. Make the point -

I've known since I was a child that Mum didn't want to be her Mum. For instance my Grandmother was always demanding, if she wanted the table to be laid it didn't matter if Mum was doing homework or listening to a radio show everything had to be dropped immediately to do what she was told and it couldn't wait 10 minutes. She was never like that with DB and me, it was always 'can you do this in the next half an hour or so'. Mum had to leave school without doing the final year because there was no point in educating girls, I went to university. Granny was very dismissive of Mum having other priorities even as an adult, she'd tell Mum to do something and Mum would say she'd do it after her work and Granny would say something like "Oh yes, your little job". Mum was always encouraging and interested in my career.

It feels like my Granny was always there inside Mum but being consciously suppressed by her, and when she's not at full strength out pops the angry martyr.

You're probably right, I'll ignore and silently roll my eyes and wait for it all to settle down again.

So she was already pissed off with me and I was trying to solve it. So stop trying to solve things. Wait for clear requests from her. Which you can then say yes or no to.

Sounds to me it’s two people with different communication styles failing, understandably, to communicate. You could always keep reminding her of your possible ASD “Sorry, mum, I can never understand hints, you have to spell things out”.

Remember too that the status of women has changed between her growing up and you growing up. There’s a great awareness of “passive-agressiveness” nowadays, but when your Mum was growing up it may have been the only mode of operation available to her - don’t ask for anything directly (you mustn’t be demanding), drop hints that you hope will be picked up.

The advice on this thread is so useful. I’m screenshotting bits of it to save for future reference and thinking I need to start spending more time on the Elderly Parents board.

“Oh my goodness, did you hear that? I thought it was your mother talking! You sound JUST LIKE HER”

I did this to my mother -'you sound just like nan, are you doing that on purpose?' (nan being a champion complainer and queen of the passive aggressive, which DM had to cope with as they lived together and DM was FT carer). It dealt with it for a while, at least.

I have dithered for a while and decided that texting is the way forward for the time being. She is ignoring my text asking how she is and if she needs anything. So I’m assuming that she’s fine for the time being, or else she’s lying dead on the floor. 😂

That’s the way! Remember, martyrdom only works if you accept the guilt.

I would absolutely lose my temper. I have no idea how you put up with this.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/how-to-cope-with-a-difficult-older/id1567190358?i=1000552542516

Can I recommend this podcast? I found it really helpful for dealing with my elderly mum.

Thanks Eleusa. I'll listen to that.

Just to update you all. I kept texting and the DC received postcards from her holiday so I got them to text too. Then she came to lunch at our house (DB picked her up) and she was back to her usual self. No mention at all made about anything, not even about lying dead on the floor.

Her arm is much improved and the physio is helping. She hopes to be driving again by the end of the week.

@Blackeyesbluetears sounds like you already received great advice that is working upthread but wanted to share my thoughts too. hope this is okay.

Ah yes, parenting the parent. Yes, I agree with pp saying this is likely just how they were brought up communicating! you would need to spell it out. I try
"It sounds like you are saying xxx . you want me to do yyy?" each and every time.
Even if you say" i'll never feel embarassed if you ask directly" they likely will NEVER ask directly.