Worried about my mum being taken advantage of by a sibling.

[Whatsleftnow]

My df died recently. He always managed my dp’s finances, planned for the future, saved etc.

My db moved home ten years ago after a “run of bad luck” (failed business, lot of debt) and my dps bailed him out, helped him set up another business which has also failed. He has accrued more debt, isn’t working. Head very much buried in the sand. He’s been living rent free with my dps.

My dps have expressed their intention to leave their house to my dp, on the basis that I’m settled in my own home. I’ve never considered myself entitled to anything - they put me through college, helped out in various ways and have been lovely parents. I don’t have an issue with their desire to feel that my db is safely taken care of.

But I am worried now that my dm, is vulnerable to my db’s influence without my df to apply the brakes. I’m hoping that my dm will be more sensible than she has been and that her financial impulsivity in the past was just a reaction to my df’s tightfistedness.

And there is also a realistic chance that her assets will be eaten up by the costs of her healthcare as she ages. But I’m concerned that db will clear her out and then clear off and I could be left footing the bills for her care in years to come. And dreading the day my db comes looking for help after that.

I don’t know how to approach this, or even if I can. I don’t want to infantilise my dm - she’s perfectly entitled to do whatever she wants with her own money, and she’s of sound mind.

If DM has no money when the time for healthcare comes, then the first option is to sell or mortgage her house. The care homes do not and cannot look to the children to fund care if you choose not to do so. When her assets fall below £20,000 (including the house) then the government pays.

Since you are already aligned with your DPs wishes to look after DB, he will bear the brunt of this because he is living in the house and, it seems, expecting to receive it in DM's will. So on balance I guess you have to leave him to it.

Spending on healthcare out of assets can drift on for a long time, especially if DM also has income from pensions. In my case DM's pensions covered about half of her care costs. I chose to fund the other half myself rather than sell the house, which turned out to be a good decision because the house value rocketed far more than my contributions. And my contributions became a debt on her estate; debts like that have to be paid out before assets are distributed. So even if you do pay, you can eventually force the sale of the house if DB won't buy your debt to keep the house.

Which country does your DM live in?

@RandomMess I’m in RoI
@filka thats very interesting. I think I need to seek advice on what happens in Ireland (I’m assuming your info is for the UK).

I know I can’t be compelled to provide care but I also wouldn’t be able to turn away. I doubt db would stick around to help. I’m imagining a situation where she would remortgage the house and it would be effectively worthless before it even comes to nursing homes.

A certain amount of this is my mind running wild because of grief. I don’t want to say anything while emotions are running high so it’s helping to off load here.

Do you have social services - you could report her as vulnerable and you are concerned about DB coercing money from her.

OP, I'm sorry your brother is such an arse. Maybe you could gently talk to her mum about what she wants to happen in the future, what kind of care she wants and get the ball rolling that way.

I just wanted to point out that if you are in Ireland there wont be a requirement for your mother to sell her house to pay for care (if it ever comes to that), and you will not be billed on her behalf.

The Fair Deal Scheme means your mother will be expected to contribute towards her care, but it is based on her means and some part of the value of the house, and the government will pay the rest.

Here is a spiel from the government website -
Your contribution is based on all of the following. You will pay:

80% (40% if you are part of a couple) based on your income
7.5% (3.75% if you are part of a couple) of your cash assets such as savings, stocks, shares
7.5% (3.75% if you are part of a couple) of your assets such as land or property
The first €36,000 (€72,000 if you are part of a couple) is excluded from the assessment. This is excluded firstly from your cash assets and then any remainder from your non-cash assets.

Your home will only be included in the financial assessment for a period of 3 years. You will not pay more than 22.5% (11.25% if you have a part of a couple) of the value of your home. This cap can also extend to your farm or business.

www.gov.ie/en/service/0d6b5-fair-deal-scheme/#what-the-fair-deal-scheme-is

However if your mother sells her house in the few years before she goes into care, the sale amount may be counted as a cash asset and she would be assessed on that, or it may be deemed deprivation of assets.

This also doesn't include things like home help, but there are HSE supports available (though sometimes not very reliable) if you can't pay for private home help.

But you will not be expected to fund her nursing home.

In ROI , if your brother is in residence for more than 3 years or over the age of 65 , they will not be able to use the Fair Deal option. However , fortunately, her pension will contribute to her care. When it comes to care , the ROI have a very compassionate system I believe and unless you want a particular nursing home and are willing to pay , you will not be expected to fund her care.

As regards her finances, I would suggest that any savings like Credit Union might be put in a joint account , even her bank account, with you so that you can monitor it. That is of course , if she will agree. Maybe she will be glad of that as she must be aware of your DB lack of financial sense. DB might be insulted but perhaps you could say that both of you need to be able to help your mother manage her affairs .

once things are a bit calmer I think that I would talk to your mum about your brothers long term needs vs short term wants. And as part of that explain that equity release on the house to help him now would leave him homeless in the future.

Thanks for that information @Farmageddon and @Soonenough that’s very helpful