FIL refusing help

[cnca00]

85 year old MIL and FIL, FIL has dementia and is unsteady on his feet, MIL has osteo arthritis and physically frail. Mil would like to go for a few weeks respite as she is mentally and physically exhausted with looking after FIL who is repeating questions, has lost the ability to deal with finances and is becoming aggressive with her.

FIL will not accept any help and says he'll be fine home alone for 3 weeks whilst MIL is in respite. We have had to say MIL is going to hospital as he will not accept she needs any help. He refuses all suggestions of carers, cleaners, meals service, a 'hotel' for a holiday, care home, won't go to social groups, won't allow MiL to go out without him and becomes aggressive to MIL if the subject is raised. He can't remember to take his medication and forgets how to make a cup of tea, he has not cooked a meal by himself for over 30 years.

We are terrified of a crisis happening whilst MIl is in respite and not sure what we can do. We have power of attorney. All suggestions welcomed!

Does he have capacity? Otherwise you make the decision that he also goes to respite. Unfortunately, a crisis may be what’s needed to get him the care he needs.

Yes he is deemed to still have capacity. His dementia consultant says he needs to go into a care home but has no suggestions at all on how to actually get him to agree to going🙁

MIL goes into respite. You shut the gas supply off, if any, so he's less likely to blow up the house. You are very blunt with him that he needs support. He refuses, probably. You ring him daily if he will accept that. When the crisis occurs, you either go round there and/or call an ambulance.

It's bleak but what options do you have? This actually could trigger a change.

Absolutely what @PermanentTemporary says. It just cuts to the chase. You can go round in circles but essentially do what she says and spare yourself a lot of grief.

Get Social Services in for an assessment. It’s what we had to do.

We also had to go to the legal route to get him placed in a home. SS helped with that.

Basically, what @PermanentTemporary says.

Wait for the crisis then ring the ambulance. Once he's in hospital and they won't allow him to go home without a care package in place he'll soon change his mind.

I am also after advice on this topic . Did your parent agree to an SS assessment? Mine won't so SS have said they can't come. Also would you mind telling me what you mean by a legal route? I can't see my very poorly mum making any sensible decisions herself so am trying to work out how to proceed to get much needed support . Thank you and solidarity to all caring for elderly parents .

@Yumyumpumpernickel The legal route for us was when our social worker and GP brought in the services of the Council’s Mental Health Officer. My DM was assessed then treated in hospital under an emergency short term detention certificate. However, my DM was obviously v unwell and was escaping our homes and being distressed to the concern of members of the public. However, we are north of the border so the Adults with Incapacity Act might not be identical. @KangarooKenny may have a different experience to share.
However, with MIL who was a care home refuser, DH had to wait until she needed help in A&E for a fall before things advanced.

My mum has Alzheimers and my dad has a lot of physical needs which are due to his type 2 diabetes. They have refused all help so far and it would take a page to list everything we have tried to put in place. They say 'we are fine we don't need help'. This of course does not stop them phoning me for help. Mum called last night to say I needed to take dad to the doctors today. Because of her cognitive capacity she will refuse to listen to anything I say. Can you get the bus? No I'm not feeling well. Can dad get a taxi? no they won't come out to us (its a lie). I can organise a taxi which will turn up. No the taxi driver will know we are not at home and come back to rob us. On and on it goes. So I am picking them up today to run them 10mins to the doctors and suddenly mum is fine for the trip if I am driving. So they don't need any help whatsoever unless of course it is me.

I have seen a few threads on here recently that has the same story of parents refusing help and I just want to scream.

It’s hard but you need to get to crisis point and then his choice is taken away.

It's very hard.
I had to keep reminding myself that my Mum wasn't doing any of this to annoy me and there's little point reasoning with someone with dementia as they just cannot retain what you have said.
My FIL also refused to acknowledge that his wife was becoming quite affected by cognitive decline and refused help, partly I think because he couldn't cope with the concept that he was unable to do it all anymore. We had to wait for the inevitable crisis too. I think he realised that he needed our help and had made poor choices but was also very unwell by that point as well.

It is about waiting for a crisis. There's no arguing or reasoning with someone with dementia. I did have a period when my mum believed I was two different people - sometimes I was her daughter who she liked and other times I was a carer who she thought was a 'nasty bitch'. On the times when I was her daughter she would slag off the 'carer'. Those were the times she would agree to stuff to spite the carer!

nokitchen
I don't think my MIL recognises exactly who I am. Curiously, she's actually more pleased to see DD and I then when she did reliably recognise us. She introduces us as 'her friends' 😁

I was that woman with the fat back evidently 😂

Better than her former DIL who was described as a 'strange little woman' who was visiting with her granddaughter.. they actually got on very well before!

I too would let the crisis happen, it’s very hard to do but sometimes people refuse to listen so your hands are tied.
We pleaded with my ILs not to let their 50 year old son, who needs lots of care after a stroke, to come and live with them. MIL is recovering from Pancreatic cancer, FIL has Parkinson’s. They ignored dh’s and I so we had to let them get on with it. Within 3 days of him moving in there was a major crises, SS and all other relevant agencies are now involved and are helping to find BIL assisted living accommodation as a matter of urgency.

@Beamur and @FlatOutAgain sorry to go off topic, but for a while I thought my DM’s default age in her brain was around 19-22. She hasn’t spoken in sentences for about four years. She used to mention odd words which made me think she was ‘dating’ my DF. She looked at me and would make announcements as if I was her own mother. This went on for a period of months. Then when one of my DC arrived home from studying abroad, I’m convinced she thought they were herself.

Sorry that was also to @nokitchen

What I would say is arm yourself with all the knowledge you need if the crisis happens. Know what your rights are and your FIL rights are when he is in hospital and how to ensure he is assessed. We did not do that and it would have been so helpful to understand the process better.

Many thanks @Mum5net. Really good to understand all the options. Just feels so wrong to be waiting for the inevitable accident if there is any other route.

@Mum5net my mum recognises me and she is fairly lucid. She has her 'needs' and the MUST be met. She recently got out of the car whilst it was still moving and I had to grab her to pull her back in. I was driving her to the doctors (yet again) and she needed to give the receptionist a prescription. She was so stressed that she just had to get there and as soon as possible. She knows who she is and she knows who I am. She does have trouble with other people at times but it is her agression and anger that I struggle with the most. Especially when it is aimed at me. I appreciate that it is not her but it doesn't make it any easier at times.