Paying for private at home care

[A580Hojas]

Hello. I've found a care Agency I like the look of for my very elderly (91) mother and they have been to visit her and we have talked on the phone about the level of care she needs to start off with.

My Mum is resistant at the moment. This is because she is feeling fairly well in herself just now and feels she can manage at home without help - although she cannot shower alone and has only had two showers in 5 months!!!

She doesn't feel well all the time and has had many spells of ill health since last Autumn, 2 stays in hospital and 3 weeks respite care in a nursing home followed by 2 weeks reablement care organised by the council.

Still. She is reluctant to set this care up. It would be £27 for half an hour, 3 mornings a week. So about £90 per week. She can EASILY afford this. The alternatives would be 1. no care visits at all and therefore no showers at all (foul) or 2. to go to a nursing home which is £1400 per week.

Sorry this is getting a bit long.

Anyway, the care agency want 4 weeks payment in advance and then they invoice fortnightly. I am just trying to establish what this 4 weeks payment is - if it's some sort of deposit or if she will not receive her first invoice until 6 weeks after the care has started. Am waiting to hear from the agency on this point.

What do people think about these fees? She lives in Hampshire if relevant. If she arranged care through social services would the charges be similar? She has well over £23,000 savings and a property so obviously would have to pay.

I'd really welcome any views on this as I am becoming utterly exasperated with her!

I wonder how much the agency pay the carer out of that £52 per hour?

Is your mum resistant to care altogether or is she unhappy with the cost?

The agency will confirm what the 4 weeks upfront covers. What do you want the carer to do 3 times a week, half an hour wont be long enough for a nice shower, hairwash, getting dressed. She might be better off with an hours visit twice a week. She can apply for attendance allowance to help cover the cost if thats a concern. It might be worth seeing if she will agree to an ot home assessment ro ask if there is any equipment or services that might make life a bit easier for her to be independent. Its free for small adaptations.

A lot of what you pay for with private agency care is the fact that you are always covered. So you may get it cheaper with a private arrangement, but they can let you down and it can be a nightmare (experience of this). We had private care for my Mum as we tried to have her living with us but she wouldn't wash/bath or shower. I said to stay living here she had to have a bath or shower at least weekly - as she couldn't do this herself I paid for a carer.

In the end it didn't work out with her here she tried to rule the roost over my two DS (late teens) who were actually lovely to her, but because they didn't have "short back and sides" hair cuts and wear suits and their mates came round (nothing crazy, just normal stuff like gaming and the odd beer each) I said I was sorry she needed to go somewhere else. Actually she now absolutely loves the home she is in due to the fact their food is better than mine, they do the laundy better and she has people to talk to! And although it's expensive (1100 pw) it's worth it.

The payment in advance is so that the care agency gets paid regardless of whether a client cancels, gets admitted into hospital, or passes away. They will still have to pay their carers and costs so the 4 weeks in advance is normal. It's not a deposit, you're just paying for the care in advance.

The fees sound ok(ish) although I wonder if it wouldn't be just a little bit more expensive to make it a full hour instead of half an hour. Most carers will do light housework to fill in the time. Bear in mind that a lot of time in homecare is spent driving so 60 minute calls are probably more economical than 30 minute ones, bearing in mind that the amount of driving will be the same.

You can arrange your own care or go through social services but if you're paying it will be quicker and easier to organise care yourself. No different price wise.

Have you considered using a local self employed carer. This is what I do. My rates are £20 an hour all inclusive so it's more money for me and less money for my client. I get plenty of work.

Your mum will hate the carers for the first 2 weeks. For the next 4 weeks she will tolerate them. After that, she will start to look forward to them coming.

I mean less money for my client to have to pay - not less money for my client lol.

It won't be £52 per hour 2 x £27 is £54 for starters

The half hour rate is usually higher than the hourly rate because of economies of scale.

No you wouldn't be paying that much if you went via social services. She would pay the full amount of whatever the local authority would be charged by an agency which is usually a lot less p/h than going privately.

The downside of that cheaper rate is that you have to go with whatever agencies social services contract with.

I'm not sure a half hour visit is long enough for a shower visit though. Not for someone with mobility issues to get into the shower, washed, out again, dry, dressed without it being a huge rush.

I think 30 mins isn't long enough. Could you sell it to her as a bit of company too. They could start off perhaps making breakfast, sitting with her for a cup of tea? Then once trust has been established a but of personal care?
Apply for attendance allowance too.

If she is paying for her own care, then I don't think that social services will become involved....they used to keep info on local care services but they will not recommend or otherwise. Here's the hampshire info and contacts. www.hants.gov.uk/socialcareandhealth/adultsocialcare. What you can do if she has mental capacity is nothing. Even if you have financial POA you have to administer it according to her wishes. Sorry but that is the story.

The fees are the going rate, double on BH’s or flat rate if no carer required.
FiL pays slightly more for 30 minutes plus travel. He was very reluctant to employ carers but twice daily visits as a minimum were getting too much for my DH.
We were very firm, a united front, and basically said this will be happening. He moans a bit but likes the carers and given he’s virtually chair bound it’s nice to see a different face.
I think DH (who does all FiL life admin) paid 4 weeks upfront plus an admin fee but he now pays in arrears so the first bill must have been something like 8 weeks later.
There are cheaper agencies but we like the staff and contract with Home Instead
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Edit - carers 4 x 30 minutes a week

SS arranged care for DF (didn’t live near) with early dementia.

it was a 15 minute visit! They asked him if he was ok and made him a sandwich. They asked him if he wanted to get changed if he was in dirty clothes which, as they didn’t put anything in the machine to wash, meant he was just rotating the same dirty clothes! He hadn’t showered for a long time and they certainly didn’t have time to do it in a 15 minute visit! Thankfully we were able to find him a place near us in a home relatively quickly and he is very well looked after.

I think they would be pushed to bathe your DM in 30 mins tbh but if they aren’t doing anything else it might be possible. Do look at her claiming attendance allowance, Age Concern can visit and help complete the forms if you wish -they are very lengthy!

See if your council have a list of approved self employed carers. Then your mum can have the same carer every day, or two carers in rotation agreed between them. I pay £20 per hour for my mum, they do 2 weeks on two weeks off between them. The money is going straight to the carers with no agency fees. After initially not being very happy about the situation, my mum now loves them.

We have 3 half hour visits and 45 mins in the morning for shower.

Thanks everyone. She claims attendance allowance which she spends on her cleaner and gardener. But I doubt they cost the full amount. The gardener only comes once a fortnight for an hour or so in the summer.

She says "it's going to cost me £90 a week just to have 3 showers". My attitude is yes, and what is the alternative?

Also - she is lonely. She enjoyed having the carers in organised by the council when she came out of the care home, even though they didn't do anything for her as she insists on being up, washed and dressed by 7am. Because she can do this (sometimes) she thinks she's fine. I'm a bit dismayed that she doesn't want to be cleaner tbh.

Thank you for what you do @DenholmElliot1

Does she want 3 showers a week, is she hapoy with a flannel wash. In a carehome she might only ask for one shower a week. Ime a lot of older people dont really like showers, they feel unsafe and slippery, they feel cold afterwards and never properly dry. For company could she join a befriending or social group .

Is your mum able to wash herself? If she can do that adequately then there is no need for showers, surely?

Mum, tried council and agency but not good enough so we paid 2 local women to cover full time weekday care, nightime was shared with family members. That worked well care was done properly and probably didn’t cost much more, but what price knowing we had done our best.

It's worth investigating if you could hire someone directly to visit twice a week for an hour, yes to shower her but also to spend time - offer £20 an hour which is far more than they will get through the agency. I hired through word of mouth and paid £15/ hour 2.5 years ago

It's the sort of thing a sahm with school age children might be interest in for instance, to perhaps ask that demographic if anyone knows someone. If you happen by chance to be near me I know of someone suitable though because she doesn't drive it's highly unlikely it's the right town

It won't be £52 per hour 2 x £27 is £54 for starters

Haha maths was never my strong point

A home carer should be dbs checked and receive training before they offer to help someone with personal care

Carers definitely need to have public liability insurance and a dbs!

We have private care for fil (Surrey/Hants borders) and it costs £32.50 for an hour, £34.50 at weekends and double on bank holidays. They will basically do anything from personal care to cooking, putting washing on and changing beds.

If she is paying for her own care, then I don't think that social services will become involved She is entitled to an assessment of needs at least. And SS can arrange the care and ask her to contribute/pay in full either to them or direct to the agency.

I agree with @BlanketsBanned , if she can manage a flannel wash a shower isn’t necessary if she doesn’t want or enjoy them. When she was growing up, few people had showers, and people certainly weren’t having daily baths. She won’t sweat as much as a younger person, it’s the nether regions that really need to be kept scrupulously clean and that can be done with a flannel.

Why on earth do you think she wants/needs 3 showers a week, when she was happy with one in 5 months? Does she smell? Is she getting lots of infections? It sounds as though she’s got full capacity to make those decisions for herself - don’t bully her into doing stuff she doesn’t want or need to do. If she’s a bit lonely find a different set of solutions.

SS can get involved/do an assessment/arrange the care but there’s little benefit to that - it’s likely to take ages, involve a financial assessment first, and end up with no choice of care agency. In this market you pay for consistency, reliability and choice and personally I feel that’s money well spent.