What would it be appropriate to pay someone to stay overnight with DM?

[Diagnosticdigressions]

Quick background: DM is due to be released from hospital in the next day or so, we are going on holiday tomorrow and it's a trip we've been planning for years and would cost us a fortune to cancel so I'm trying to set up care for while we are away.

The hospital will be arranging 'double-handed' care 4 x a day because she has a leg brace on and cannot get around unaided. Her usual cleaner/carer (who has been going in 6 days a week for 1.5 hours until this latest fall) has offered to stay over at night while we are away just in case of emergency because I won't be there to come round if DM presses her personal alarm. Her carer won't actually be getting her out of bed or anything because that would be too high risk so DM will have night-time pads etc the idea is just that she'll be there to call an ambulance in an emergency.

I've asked how much she would like to be paid for this but she doesn't know and says we should decide. Can anyone advise?

Her usual hourly rate is £13 for cleaning / laundry / preparing a meal etc but in this instance, all being well, she would just be sleeping for the time she is on-site.

Any thoughts much appreciated

To clarify, this would be short term for about 10-11 nights total (DB will cover three of the nights we're away)

Minimum wage at the very least.

Mil has a night time carer for similar reasons. She is paid £9 per hour (going up to £9.50 per hour from today).

For sleep-ins at work we get 2 hours full pay and a 50€ on call payment plus time and a half for any time we're actually attending to emergencies. That's sandwiched between two shifts on normal pay though so we haven't gone to work to do a sleep in specifically.

Thanks all, really helpful to get some figures

our sleep ins are technically only 6 hours midnight to 6am always following a late shift which finishes at midnight and followed by an early starting at 6am so not the same as just a sleep in. The pay for sleep ins is widely considered rubbish but doing 4 per month is expected as part of the role (salaried role but sleep in payments are extras as are extra allowances for Sundays and Bank holidays and 8pm-midnight).

She may need a pad change and position change overnight if she has double carers during the day then one carer overnight may not be able to do that. What happens if she has her bowels open, she cant just be left in a soiled pad overnight. If she has a leg brace on then she will also need help changing her position so she doesnt get bedsores. I would ring the ward and ask the nurses how often her pad and position are changed overnight. Are they arranging for her to have a hospital style bed and pressure mattress at home..

@BlanketsBanned yes, all v good points. She hasn't been having pad changes at night as far as I know but I guess that could all change. It's been impossible to speak to anyone at the hospital who knows anything but I am going in this afternoon so will do my best to find someone then.

I'm half thinking I should cancel my holiday and let DH and the kids go alone but they'll be so disappointed, DH in particular and he'll be furious that it's fallen to me again rather than another family member.

The nurses in hospital will change her position overnight and she may be able to lift her bottom to use a bedpan with the help of 2, ask what they have been doing and if she will need any overnight tablets like painkillers. If she has a broken leg and a brace that also needs keeping an eye on. Do ask what equipment they are providing for her, she cannot stay in bed forever and does she need a night time carer too it would be a shame to cancel your holiday. Do you think her current cleaner is fully aware of what care she may need.

Thanks for posting again - really helpful. I've made a note of things to ask when I go in.

She has a hairline fracture on her knee and can walk with a frame but it's the getting out of bed that's the problem. It hasn't been causing any pain (in fact they didn't realise it was fractured until someone revisited the xrays on day 3) but maybe that's just because she's been moving about so little. DM tells me that the consultant she spoke to this morning wondered if maybe she could manage without the brace which would make mobility easier but I wonder if it could possibly heal that way. Still haven't spoken to anyone at the hospital myself.

Ouch poor thing. Does she have stairs at the house, will she be able to get to the loo and bathroom. There are lots of mobility aids that can make life easier for her. Raised loo seat or surround, perching stool for a wash, temporary commode, bed raiser so she can pull herself up, continence bin service from the council, walking trolley. Ask to speak to the discharge co ordinator, physio and OT if you can to see what they are putting in place. Sometimes just moving the bed downstairs for a while will help. Ask if she will be getting any physio at home.

Thanks and sorry for slow response - been at hospital. She is all on one level with an en-suite bathroom v close by, raised seat and support bars, and her bed has a raiser so she has a few things in place already and the hospital have said they will recommend anything extra that the OT/physio team think she will need. She's actually a fair bit more mobile today and they think she'll be able to get up with just one person to help v soon. Anyway, they haven't discharged her yet but feeling a bit more like it's going to be ok and her regular carer is fully in the picture, various relatives on stand-by etc

Thats a great update, I hope she gets home soon and you have a lovely holiday.

Is mum claiming attendance allowance and her carer the carers allowance, it all helps.

@BlanketsBanned

The nurses in hospital will change her position overnight and she may be able to lift her bottom to use a bedpan with the help of 2, ask what they have been doing and if she will need any overnight tablets like painkillers. If she has a broken leg and a brace that also needs keeping an eye on. Do ask what equipment they are providing for her, she cannot stay in bed forever and does she need a night time carer too it would be a shame to cancel your holiday. Do you think her current cleaner is fully aware of what care she may need.

Overnight care is very rarely provided. The hospital wouldn't be sending her home with 4 calls daily if they thought she needed night care. It sounds positive now though OP so I hope you enjoy your holiday!

Many of my clients receive an extra overnight continence and pressure relief visit. An immobile doubly incontinent client cannot be left for what could be 8 to 10 hours a night.

@BlanketsBanned unfortunately they can and they are. In the area I work in overnight care is not provided through social services. It's either funded privately or the client goes to placement. Pads and turning equipment is used to manage overnight needs. Far far from ideal but that's the reality in many places.

Is there any way she could go into a home for respite care? It wouldn’t be cheap, but you’d know everything was covered. I think it would be the only way I could relax enough to go on holiday.

A cleaner can't provide the same care as a carer. I wouldn't expect to pay the full hourly rate of a carer to someone who is basically going to sleep through the night and will just wake up if called. And then will call someone else to help.

But, because she's still in hospital, you have no idea what nighttime care she will need. So it might be inappropriate to ask a non-qualified person to help. Could you not place her in a rest home for a couple of weeks respite care while you're away? How long are you going for?

£700 pw for sleeping care here. £20 /hour for our cleaner with some care experience who steps in in emergencies.

When I used to do overnight sole charge nannying I charged 50% hourly rate from 10pm - 6am based on me sleeping through the night unless I was disturbed. I know it's different but just another point of view.

£15 per hour is what I get paid if I do nights

Do the hospital know no one is around?

In similar circumstances my Nan was put in respite care for a few weeks so that we knew she was safe

We told the hospital nobody could check on her and after a lot of pushing it was arranged

Just checking back in to thank those who took the time to post on this thread. Sorry I disappeared, it was just so hectic getting everything in place before I went away. But, it all worked out, we paid for overnight care from the cleaner / carer I mentioned (I didn't explain before but she used to be a professional carer in her home country but now does a combination of eldercare, cleaning and childcare) for the nights that family members weren't able to cover. DM was actually mobile much more quickly than we expected. I stayed over for a week after we got back from holiday but she mostly wasn't getting up at all at nights or was managing without help if she was - and once she'd stopped needing the brace we went back to her being alone at nighttimes, which seems to be working fine for now.