Financial assessment for nursing home fees - what's involved?

[BettyBarclay]

My Dad has dementia and other health issues and lives in a nursing home. I have recently been told that the Council require a financial assessment to be done to see if/how much he needs to contribute to the cost.

He doesn't have capacity and I have applied for power of attorney but it's taking ages to be processed.

Dad's financial affairs are not in a good state due to his dementia. I can't start to do much to try and work out what he has until I have PoA. But I do know he has, or at least had, shares in multiple businesses as he enjoyed investing (as a hobby as much as anything).

His Social Worker isn't being very forthcoming about the process. Does anyone know:

How quickly will they want the information? (I'm worried that it will take some time to get a full picture of his finances - there are files and files of papers in no particular order it seems)
What information will they require?
How far back will I need to dig to provide it?
I presume that the financial assessment can't happen until I have PoA?

Thank you so much. This is such a worry on top of his illness.

If your dad doesn’t have capacity, how have you applied for power of attorney?

To set up an LPA a person must have the mental capacity to decide to do so.
Given your father doesn't, you cannot now do this, legally.
In this case, you'll have to apply to the court to be appointed as their deputy. The Court of Protection may reject someone’s application to become a deputy for someone who’s lost their mental capacity. In this case, it will appoint the local authority (which usually means the donor’s local council)
If no capacity, the authority may well already be deputising.
Usually if a LPA is required they're about 8 weeks from start to finish. Deputy is often longer.

Atm, your best bet is to try and organise what paperwork there is so you at least have a general outline.

If you think that he has greater than 23k in savings, investments and equity anyway, then it's a moot point in that he will be funding all of his care.

I would read this to review the capacity issue.
www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

@Candleabra

If your dad doesn’t have capacity, how have you applied for power of attorney?

Because he had an Enduring Power of Attorney which was drawn up 20 years ago that we have submitted now that he doesn't have capacity.

@ChoiceMummy

To set up an LPA a person must have the mental capacity to decide to do so. Given your father doesn't, you cannot now do this, legally. In this case, you'll have to apply to the court to be appointed as their deputy. The Court of Protection may reject someone’s application to become a deputy for someone who’s lost their mental capacity. In this case, it will appoint the local authority (which usually means the donor’s local council) If no capacity, the authority may well already be deputising. Usually if a LPA is required they're about 8 weeks from start to finish. Deputy is often longer.

Atm, your best bet is to try and organise what paperwork there is so you at least have a general outline.

If you think that he has greater than 23k in savings, investments and equity anyway, then it's a moot point in that he will be funding all of his care.

He had an Enduring Power of Attorney drawn up 20 years ago (what predated LPAs). These have to be registered after the person loses capacity (different to LPAs) and the current estimated time to get this done is 20 weeks.

[quote ChoiceMummy]I would read this to review the capacity issue.
www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/[/quote]
The PoA process is underway, it's just got to work it's way through the system. Current wait times are estimated at 20 weeks.

I was just wondering if anyone who has been through the process as an attorney has any insight to share.

They’ll look at income and capital. You shouldn’t need to dig back because it’s about his current situation rather than historical, unless there’s some suggestion of deprivation of assets (which there doesn’t seem to be). Social worker probably won’t know much because the assessment is usually done by a finance officer. They’ll be used to dealing with situations like this so perhaps worth asking to have a chat with them to put your mind at rest.

Probably all you can do at this stage is sort stuff out so that is good to go once you've been approved. So that you know which banks and companies he had dealings with so that you know where to start. They will want to see account balances on any bank/building society accounts, any dividends etc that come in and pension money. They will want to see evidence - so a physical statement (can't remember how far back 3/6 months?). They will also be looking for any hint of deprivation of assets - my dad's threw up questions on a loan given to my sibling ref IVF treatment and the gift of a car. They were forgiving of the more standard cash for birthdays/Christmas/weddings. They will also want to see outgoings and they will (although not say it out loud!) expect any subscriptions, charitable donations etc to be stopped and any benefit that can be claimed, claimed.

That's helpful Forestdweller. Thanks

You don't need power of attorney to complete the financial assessment.

If you believe that his savings and assets are likely to be over £23k then he will automatically be a full cost payer and they won't need to see any financial information until you approach them again to say that he's about to drop below that threshold.

You will just be sent a bill to pay every month from his accounts and that's the bit you need the LPA/EPA for.

The local authority will be very understanding if you cant pay those monthly bills for a bit while you are getting the EPA registered but will expect any debt that builds up to be paid once you have access to his funds.

They can in some circumstances also arrange a 'deferred payment' which is a charge against a property that is waiting to be sold if there are no other funds to pay the bills.

Yes, as hatgirl says, as soon as you find he has enough funds over £23000 to be a self funder, you can simple say that, and refuse a financial assessment. You should still sort out his money, of course, but you won’t have the Council crawling all over it.

If he is a complete self funder, he can also apply for the non-means tested Attendance Allowance. Every little helps

What Mere said. My mum has never had a financial assessment. All been sorted privately

Suggest getting dad assessed for CHC funding BEFORE the LA assessment. It’s worth a try. If he qualifies he won’t pay a penny for his care irrespective of his means.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

But be aware CHC is a very high bar. Unless he’s needing nursing decisions every day, he’s unlikely to get it. So if you can’t face the hassle, it’s fine to leave it.

If you google “CHC assessment tool” you should be able to download the multi-page questionnaire. Make sure you’re not looking at the short pre-screening questionnaire.

Worth checking where you are OP, as rules are different in the devolved nations. I had a document from mums sw, titled ‘residential charging policy’ which might be useful if your council do the same.

Try contacting Age UK. Where my parents live they have an advisor who knows the funding for care homes inside out, which was very helpful. Or I think they have a national advice line.

Is your Dad on his own now? Makes a difference as the care home fees cannot be priced such that it would make the remaining partner homeless.

[quote TheCatThatWalkedAlone]Suggest getting dad assessed for CHC funding BEFORE the LA assessment. It’s worth a try. If he qualifies he won’t pay a penny for his care irrespective of his means.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/[/quote]
He's had one CHC assessment done and was turned down hence the financial assessment. We were going to appeal, but his needs have changed so much that he needs another assessment and we're waiting for it to be done. So, we now have a pause in the financial assessment process. Things are fast moving with his health but not so much with the care funding processes!

@MauvishMaude

Try contacting Age UK. Where my parents live they have an advisor who knows the funding for care homes inside out, which was very helpful. Or I think they have a national advice line.

Is your Dad on his own now? Makes a difference as the care home fees cannot be priced such that it would make the remaining partner homeless.

Mum still lives in their house so we know that is excluded from any assessment.

They are in England.

They will ask for copies Bank statements for all accounts in his name. Ours asks for these for the last 6 months to a year depending on circumstances. Details of any other investments he has I.e shares and details of all income he receives.