Care Home Top Up

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My father has been in care home for 3 months, he has now dropped to the £23,250 threshold. I contacted his council in November to say there wasn't a lot money left and they have been dragging their heels since. I do not have POA for him, i do for my mother but they will speak to me to a point as although he has full capacity his education was poor.
I am now being pestered by care home to sign forms to say i will help him pay his bills, meaning top up if needed. The finance lady at home said it was unusual to ask residents relatives to top as home is one of the cheaper ones but she couldn't guarantee it.
I am so anxious, we don't have a lot of spare money as i had to go PT to home educate my teen daughter who has been seriously ill over the last two years.
I have had so much stress over last few months because my mother has abused my father. He had to be removed from his home in middle of night in November and can't go home. In the meantime she has inherited a large amount and is spending it on all sorts of things and he can't touch it and i may be asked to pay towards his care.

How much is the top up? Is that to come from the £23k?

contact social workers etc...dont sign....fees can be 4k a month....you could be liable for huge sums if he is in home for years....

MichelleScarn We are not allowed to use his £23,250 ,so that stays in his bank account.
Haven't been told if there is a top up to be paid yet as funding discussions are still going on, but have just received letter to say fees are going up £65 a week from April so am even more worried.

earsup the fee has just gone up to £1100 week.

My dad is in a care home funded by the council. I am looking to move him so have been finding out about costs etc and from what I've been told by care home managers, social workers and the council's finance officer, the amount the council will pay varies by area but they each have a limit. Care Homes can charge a top up fee which must be paid by family. It can't come out of the person's savings as that eventually will run out. Top up fees are different for each care home. Some don't charge any. Maybe check if the increase in fees is a general rise that will be covered by the council.

@NK346f2849X127d8bca260

MichelleScarn We are not allowed to use his £23,250 ,so that stays in his bank account. Haven't been told if there is a top up to be paid yet as funding discussions are still going on, but have just received letter to say fees are going up £65 a week from April so am even more worried.

Whats it to be used for if you can't pay for his living costs with it?

Yes, i ask myself the same thing!

Find out the ceiling price ie the maximum the local authority will pay for a placement. If the actual cost of your specific placement costs more than that you have to meet the shortfall. It can't come from the client as they will have been assessed what their client contribution is towards their care already. In some circumstances, this shortfall can be waivered. If you can put an argument together as to why the local authority needs to pay it ie. You can't afford it, person has lived there x amount of years and is settled, if they moved it would cause significant harm/distress. In my experience, waivers are rare though.

Hope that helps.

I work for social services.

This is a self-funding pick-up.

In my authority we would go and assess his needs and as long as eligible to be in a home we would do a market search for 'best value'.

So say current home is £1100pw and best value search comes back with a home for £1000pw then the person can only stay there if a third party tops up the extra cost. It cannot come from the person's capital or income.

The market search will include the cost for staying at current home and the team will usually haggle a better price. If the current home is the cheapest then the person can stay there with no top up.

Prior to this (or concurrently) though we would have done a finance assessment to ascertain the date we will pick up from. We can backdate to as far as the date we were advised of the situation.

Which part are your SS dragging their feet over?

I should add, sign nothing! Chase SS for them to do their part. Then delaying for ages for whatever reason is putting the placement at risk and that's detrimental.

It happens quite quickly where I work - couple of weeks for us to assess, but other authorities can take much longer.

Why aren’t the care home chasing your mum rather than you, since she’s the one with the money and is presumably next of kin? Is it because you have POA for your mum?

So say current home is £1100pw and best value search comes back with a home for £1000pw then the person can only stay there if a third party tops up the extra cost. It cannot come from the person's capital or income.

Good info! @kookievee, will need to file that away for the future! So even though a person may have a huge income an lots of capital, they wouldn't be the one to pay the top up fee?

@MichelleScarn

The person's income is already in play for the costs as the finance assessment will take all income into account for their contribution then SS pay the rest. The top up is money on top of that.

If the had huge capital they'd be self-funders so none of this would apply. In this case what's left will be the £23250 that is the capital someone is allowed to keep under current rules therefore can't be used as top up - it would run down quick and then who would pay?

In most cases we wouldn't move someone if they'd been in a joke for years before we pick up the funding but in the case it's 3 months so we might want to move them unless someone paid a top-up.

It's all very complicated unfortunately- especially for families.

@kookievie

Hope you do not mind me asking. I have a relative, now 103, who has been in a care home self funding for several years now. They have spent over £700,000 on fees and their funds will soon run out. I know Council fund other residents at the same home. It is not a luxury BUPA type place. Could the Council move them to another home at this stage or force the family to contribute? Or can we insist the Council fund?

@Kilimanjaro97 - kookievie hasn’t replied yet, so here’s my understanding. (I am simply a carer, this isn’t a professional opinion). Council has to fund, but they don’t have to pay more than their normal rate for residential care (else we’d all be choosing the most expensive home secure in the knowledge that the Council would pay when the money ran out).

If they fund other residents at the home, it suggests that it is within the normal Council rate. You will also make the case that she’s settled and would be caused harm by moving. So I would expect her to continue to be there once the Council start paying.

You could ask the home and they may be able to reassure you.

The Council can’t insist you fund. The only way they can ask you to fund is if your relative wishes to stay in a home which would be more expensive than the Council rate. If that was the case they’d give you a choice “either we move her to a home we can afford, or, if you want her to stay here, you make up the difference” . They can’t say “we normally place people here, but in this case we can save some money by paying less than our usual rate and asking the relatives to contribute”

@MereDintofPandiculation: Thank you for this. I am reassured to an extent. I will talk to the home. It is a big source of worry for us.

Sorry I just saw the question.

We would be unlikely to move a 103 year old who has been in a home for that long. Unless the home was megabucks.

It would be easy to make a case not to move them.

It's harder when someone has been somewhere for a few weeks though.

@kookievee - Thank you. That is reassuring.

Thank you all for your replies.
I have received a letter from care home today and my father is being funded fully by his council and i am not required to sign anything.

The council wanted to move him but his social worker, who is aware of the awful abuse he has suffered asked, when it went to panel, that consideration was given to his wish to stay where he was.
It is also easier for us to visit as on train route so my teens can go and see him on their own. Which given he is so depressed at not being able to go home will hopefully give him a boost.

Ok does that mean it is resolved? And that LA are fully finding his placement except for his assessed financial contribution (everyone has this) and no third party top up?

I was about to say wait don't sign, just let the social worker team as was and put forward a case. Bc they deal with this all the time. Is it resolved now?

I meant- Let the S/w team assess
( sorry my phone is auto changing words tonight!)