LPOA advice please .Who is right ?

[bizzey]

I have asked my mum's friend to be our witness for her POA x2
Her friend says the finance part cant be activated till my mum is declared ,by a doctor ,,as not competent .

I thought that that was the health and welfare part .
I thought finance was as soon as it was approved ?

Otherwise ...why am I doing it now ...when I still do so much financial /banking stuff for her already .
I am TPA in her bank account, but cannot help/access her utillies and stuff.
To be fair ,, all I can do with the TPA card is pay for things.It does not let me get statements and stuff.
(Took me ages at my mum's house the other day to get the on line banking sorted,as I had messed up my apps !)

Any LPOA help would be gratefully received !
Lots of people telling me different things .
Thanks.

Ahhh as always ...I make no sense and did not explain.
I thought the POA would over ride the TPA

I'm sure on the form there is a question which asks do you want it to be active immediately or not until the need arises. It's a few years since we did mum's though.

@bizzey

Ahhh as always ...I make no sense and did not explain. I thought the POA would over ride the TPA

So your Mum no longer has capacity then to manage her finances?

I thought that as well.
I clicked " imeadiatly"
But her friend said , it still not activate till my mum was declared "not with it"

Finance is when the donor wants it or when they lose capacity, health is when they lose capacity.

Re finances..( sorry can't link)
No would be the easiest answer.
I keep a check on her balance (and add when it has gone wrong !)

She does not know when her monies go in .

Have POA for Dad, he has capacity but I do anything to do with finances, he just spends the money. I make sure he doesn't go overdrawn!
Mum used to do it, but she lost capacity and died, and Dad didn't know where to start, but has full mental capacity

Definitely fine straight away unless the donor puts only until they have no capacity. We had one because my dad had a horrendous progressive disease, but he was never going to lose capacity. However he lost sight/movement/ability to write so needed me to deal with his finances.

You can only do a LPA if your Mum still has capacity to make decisions. In that case, she can choose to have you granted (limited) immediate rights to help her, which means that she can pick and choose when you can use the LPA in her best interests. If she does not tick the immediately box, then it only kicks in when she loses capacity.

In short, your Mum's friend is wrong, as long as your Mum wants you to act for her.

Just done it for my parents and you can use the financial one straight away if needed.

From www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney:

Property and financial affairs lasting power of attorney
Use this LPA to give an attorney the power to make decisions about money and property for you, for example:

managing a bank or building society account
paying bills
collecting benefits or a pension
selling your home

It can be used as soon as it’s registered, with your permission.

No you are right for finances once it is registered you don't have to wait for the person to lose capacity unless otherwise stated by your mum in the LPA.

Though they are still worth doing even if it is only going to be used in the future once somebody loses capacity as once somebody has lost capacity to appoint an LPA then one can not be applied for and an application has to be made to the court of protection for an appointee which is a much more complicated and expensive process!

"Starting as a property and financial affairs attorney
The LPA may give you permission to make decisions while the donor still has the mental capacity to make their own financial decisions.

If it doesn’t, you can only start making decisions when they don’t have mental capacity.

Starting as a health and welfare attorney
You can only make decisions when the donor doesn’t have mental capacity to make them.

You must tell people involved in the donor’s care when you start. This includes the donor’s:

friends and family
doctor and other healthcare staff
care workers, social worker and other social care staff
Staff may want to see proof of your identity and either the original LPA or a certified copy." www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/start-using-power

Ahhhh thank you !
Finance IS when the donor wants it !
I was right .
Bizzey 1 ...friend 0 !

I thought that is how I had understood it .
She would not have it .

Next question....
Can I do it without a solicitor ?
I have 2 witnesses .
I have started the papers.
(Do I have to print out all 90 pages as someone told me ?)

It’s not 90 pages and you can do it yourself easily, though I did it online and then printed it.

My brother and I have POA for my mum, who is paralysed but has capacity. We did all her financial stuff, which is absolutely possible, using the POA with her permission. If she withdrew permission for any reason we'd be stuffed.

I've just made my daughters attorneys for me. It was easy. No solicitor needed.

You don't need a solicitor. It's fairly straightforward once you've got your head round it.

I think we did print Mum's out as she doesn't do online stuff, it's not real to her.

Wow ..so many helpful comments .thank you .
(Was a little bit jumping around with joy in knowing I was right ,with someone who always knows they are right ..,,,ahemmm as we were !)

Thank you all ...it is how I thought it would be.
Are 2 Freund signatures enough then ?

In some ways it's too easy. Scams are coming to light where strangers have filled out financial POAs for random people and walked away with their homes. Some awful stories on the radio the other day.

Do it online. You don't need a solicitor. You do need to make sure you sign it in the correct order, especially if different people will be signing on different days.

"Put very simply, the order is:

1. The donor must sign first, followed by the witness
2. Once they have signed the Certificate provider will sign their section
3. Attorneys and replacement attorneys sign after which is then witnessed

When filling out an LPA the order of signatures appears in the document in the order they need signing You can sign it all on the same day if everyone is available."

If you do the form online, there is a helpful checking service at the end that you can put the signing dates for each person in. It will then tell you if it's the right order. If it wasn't, then you can reprint the form and do it in the right order.

If you are the only attorney, then you need:

Donor - your Mum
Certificate Provider - your Mum's friend
Attorney - you.

Your Mum's friend (Certificate Provider) can witness your Mum's signature and your signature.

Oh wow this is so helpful .
So my mum's friend can be both ?
Witness and CP.
I had 2 friends in the line up .

Yes, the certificate provider can witness all the other signatures. Also, if you want 2 attorneys, they can witness each other's signatures.

I am POA for a few relatives. The POA can take a good few months to come through.