mum's POA, Will, AND carehome admission. help!

[palmtreeee]

hi there,

my mother is in her 90s. she was given a capacity test whilst in hospital two months ago and passed mentally and [somehow] passed physically despite her mobility being awful. she is now back in her own home, which is a council run facility, its basically semi-independent living with carers who come in off and on through the day but are not in the building 24/7.

in light of the capacity test, it dawned on me that my mum doesn't have a power of attorney, nor an updated will. my mum and i are very close and the thought of her dying is terrifying to me, so to avoid any of the legal side of it and dragging it out further, i asked my mum if she would be okay with my daughter [who is in her 30s, sees her regularly] to take on POA and to receive the money left in her account after she goes - i know she wanted me to have it, but i would much rather my daughter got it, she needs it more than i do and spending it would just make me feel sadder that my mum wasn't there to enjoy it with me. its not very much money, under 15k, so would be much more beneficial to my daughter. my daughter has made enquires about getting her a POA and Will lawyer, and has made an appointment in 2 weeks time with my mum.
the lawyer said on the phone she would need a moment alone with my mum to make sure she isn't being pushed into giving money away where she doesn't want to, does me asking her to give it to my daughter count as 'pushing her into something'? if she were to say to the lawyer 'i wanted to give it to my daughter but she said no'? or am i just worrying unnecessarily?

also - just to add to the stress of her getting older and her mobility dropping, she decided at the weekend that she wants to go into a care home. for the past 8 years, i have done all of her food, clothing and utility shopping for her with her card [with her permission, of course] and for the last 2 years i have kept all the receipts for her shopping, and any cash lift receipts have been kept with a note of what it was used for [birthday money, Christmas, etc]. i read that care homes conduct a financial assessment when a new resident is being admitted, is it ok that i've been using her card to buy her shopping, with her permission?

i'm an extremely anxious person and this all feels like so much all of a sudden, any advice from people with experience of poa, wills, and care home admission would be very appreciated. wishing you all a lovely 2022 x

I think you should separate the PoA and what your daughter gets in your mum's will as it sounds a bit like she's being paid to be PoA which is wrong. You can just pass the money onto her yourself if your mum doesn't change the will so I wouldn't stress about that. Capacity is not a one off assessment, it is decision specific and can change from one day to the next. For instance you retain capacity to decide what you want for breakfast a lot longer than capacity to manage your finances. Solicitor should make a capacity assessment at the time they set up PoA or change a will and are also obligated to make sure person not being coerced (hence the need to speak to her alone). Sounds like you have a good relationship with your mum so it's unlikely she feels coerced so don't over think this!

Also I think using your mum's card for her with permission and keeping the receipts is pretty commonplace and I can't see this raising any eyebrows.

Using her card and keeping receipts is the kind of thing the person appointed as Attorney (via POA) has to do. If your DD is appointed POA, you might not be able to use your DMs card any more. POA is a great idea, as long as you all go in with your eyes open.

Care homes are interested to know that your DM can afford the fees for (say) 2 years, IF it is a private care home. Different rules apply to council-run places.

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Using her card and keeping receipts is the kind of thing the person appointed as Attorney (via POA) has to do. If your DD is appointed POA, you might not be able to use your DMs card any more. POA is a great idea, as long as you all go in with your eyes open.

Care homes are interested to know that your DM can afford the fees for (say) 2 years, IF it is a private care home. Different rules apply to council-run places.

at the moment there is no poa in place, i only started keeping the receipts because a friend of mine was doing the same for her mum. my daughter knows she would be in charge of her finances [clothes etc], when she goes to a care home she will no longer require a food shop.

she doesnt have the funds to go into private care, what kind of financial assessment, if any, is done for council run?

Don't worry about the will.

If she has one already presumably it would leave everything to you (and any siblings?) - if she doesn't then managing intestacy is not ideal but it's perfectly manageable - everything would go to you and any siblings. In either case it's a very simple task to redirect any money due to you to go straight to your DD.

Can people just decide to go into council funded care when no need has been found, she was assessed as having capacity, both mental and physical?

@BeyondMyWits

Can people just decide to go into council funded care when no need has been found, she was assessed as having capacity, both mental and physical?

she is requesting more help than there is available to her, which can count as her being 'at risk', so under those grounds yes

@SilverRingahBells

Don't worry about the will.

If she has one already presumably it would leave everything to you (and any siblings?) - if she doesn't then managing intestacy is not ideal but it's perfectly manageable - everything would go to you and any siblings. In either case it's a very simple task to redirect any money due to you to go straight to your DD.

she has one, but it was made 60 years ago and is outdated!

If she has decided she wants to go into a care home and doesn't have the funds to pay for this herself then she needs to have a care needs assessment from social services. Approach your local council for this.

If her needs are not high enough and can be managed at home with carers they will not place her.

Who is paying for the carers now? Is she already 'in the system'?

@gukvguk

If she has decided she wants to go into a care home and doesn't have the funds to pay for this herself then she needs to have a care needs assessment from social services. Approach your local council for this.

If her needs are not high enough and can be managed at home with carers they will not place her.

Who is paying for the carers now? Is she already 'in the system'?

her carers are working on this for her already and she is going to be assessed soon, but when 'soon' is, i dont know. her mobility is poor and i think they are finding her quite a lot of work compared to other residents who are more able.

she is already in the system yes, does this make a difference re. moving to care?
she pays a small percentage each month towards the care package she has right now, plus her utility bills, council tax and some rent for the accommodation.

Your mum will always pay something towards the cost of a care home placement. She will pay an income tariff on any savings above £14,500. If she has savings above £23,250 she will pay the full cost of the placement.

She will then also pay almost all her income towards the cost of a placement. If the local authority are helping with funding, she will not be entitled to attendance allowance anymore. All her pension will pay the cost minus about £25 a week (spending money).

HTH

You don’t need a solicitor to do poa-it’s very simple. Not sure why you and your dd can’t be joint poa for finance and for health and welfare and finance (they are separate). The will sounds very simple, leave what is left to your dd. You need to keep the will and poa separate. Who will be executor of the will? Solicitors are rarely needed at this point, why pay them? Are you the next of kin?

Is your daughter willing to take on the responsibility of being POA?

She will have to liaise with social services, care home, doctors etc if your mother’s capacity starts to decline. They will deal with her and not you.
She will also be responsible for any financial issues.

Do you have a POA in place? DH and I did ours recently, we are early 50’s.

As for the will, if you don’t have any siblings the inheritance would normally come to you once the funeral fees etc had been paid. Yup could always pass it on to you daughter if you want her to have the money.

Also you don't use your mum's card as POA the banks issue you (or your daughter) with their own card with a note on the card somewhere saying the card is a poa card. This means the bank knows who is doing the spending if any issues. My partner does this for his parents and keeps a spread sheet of everything he spends for his dad.
You have to go into the bank with the registered poa and speak to someone and it takes time but well worth it once it's done.

I would recommend that you have POA in both finance and health. No need for a solicitor, the forms are straightforward to print off from GOV.uk. Your mum will have to sign them in the presence of a witness to show that she had full mental capacity when doing it. I wouldn't involve your daughter as POA, you will be surprised how often you will be asked if you have authority and it will be much easier for you to just do everything yourself.
Make sure you know of and have all the details of all your mum's accounts, insurances etc as this will make it easier when filling in the finance forms for the LA.
I would leave the will as it is. When your mum dies it sounds like it will be straightforward to execute and then you can just transfer any money left to your dd afterwards.
Hope your mum settles into her care home and it doesn't take too long for her to be assessed and a suitable place found.

You don’t need a solicitor for PoA but as you are anxious it will give you peace of mind that everything’s being done properly. Expect to pay a few hundred pounds. Can be paid from your mother’s funds.

You can, as people say, change the Will provisions afterwards, if everyone who inherits agrees. It’s called a Deed of Variation. You’ll need a solicitor.

The Council will be looking for intentional deprivation of assets that could have been used for care fees, things like putting the house in the childrens’ names, a sudden urge for really expensive cruises. They’re not going to worry about food shopping.

You could also contact age uk to put your mind at rest. V useful website