Issues with sibling re caring for father

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

I’m new here but would really appreciate some help

My elderly father is unwell. Has cancer and various other complicating underlying health conditions. He has spent a long period in hospital but now discharged to the local specialist cancer center

The local hospital has done a fairly good job in dealing with him and getting him fit to be discharged

I live further away that my DB so he has been providing more hands on assistance although I did visit for a week a few months ago. I offered to travel so we could spend Christmas with DM but was told no, DB and family would do that. It was a bit disappointing but we had to respect that. It meant we couldn’t provide any help at Christmas though.

DB has a bit of form for shutting down any discussion or debate in the basis that it is “unkind” or “stressful” or “upsetting” for him. I’m someone who prefers that people say (politely) what they think and the matter is discussed

I am finding this increasingly hard now as if I provide a counter argument or disagree with something, DB is quick to shut it down by saying that parents would be very upset to know that we are disagreeing etc.

How is best to handle this. He has recently told me he is on his knees after spending time with DM at Christmas so I shouldn’t have raised an issue with him today (about DF care and views on that). I would have loved to spend Christmas with DM but was told no need for us to get a hotel as DB and family would be going and staying at the house.

How is best to deal - we are going to go and visit as much as we can in the coming months but we simply can’t provide the same day to day support. Does that mean we should just defer to allow DB to do and say what he wishes? Being accused of “not being kind” is a bit of a trigger for me. I hate it and think it is really manipulative to be honest. But maybe I just need to totally ignore and withdraw.

Oh - and sending anything in disagreement is “an outburst”

I don’t tend to disagree about much but if I do feel that something is not in DF’s best interests, I do feel I should be able to say. But maybe not if someone else is providing more care and I just need to withdraw apart from providing support to DM and DF. The support being provided is not hands on care per se as DM is still fit and well but more going to visit and bringing food and visiting DF in hospital - which I would love to be able to do to be honest. Although I know it is time consuming

I’m probably a bad person to respond as I’m the closest geographical sibling and have felt unsupported by the more distant sibling to the point that I have experienced huge anxiety and have wondered how I can carry on. Not saying your situation is the same but here a few tips from my POV…

You mention ‘discussions’ and having your say/sharing your opinion. First off, there have been times in the last few years where my heart has pumped out of my chest with the anxiety and stress of situations I have found myself in. Having a reasoned debate or being ‘nice’ has been a million miles away from the fight or flight situations I have found myself in. My sibling, being more distant, has no insight or empathy for that. Is it possible your sibling is just about keeping their head above water living in the moment whilst you are looking at the situation with the benefit
of detachment? Only solution is to cut them some slack - I have had times where the pressure has been so much I have no energy left for ‘nice’.

Second, ask them when would be convenient to them for you to come up? My sibling parachutes in when it suits without notice. This means I can’t arrange to do anything else and I still do all the tasks I would normally do I as they don’t commit to a time/date. Don’t be that flake. If your sibling doesn’t offer up a date or plan convenient to them, you say a date and ask what you need to do to relieve them. If they are freezing you out, don’t assume it’s malicious, just say a date suitable to you to take up the slack and stick with that. It is really Important you see first hand what the situation is - my sibling is perpetually behind the curve. My accounts of capabilities are not believed - ignorance is bliss. I may be projecting here… but what I infer from the tone of your final comment ‘I know it can be time consuming’ is that you are minimising and think the opposite! Is it possible your DB gets that vibe from you? Women talk about the ‘mental load’ of parenting and it’s the same with caring. And the ‘little tasks’ can accumulate fairly rapidly in to a lot of work and disruption.

Third, volunteer for any task that can be researched or completed on line. There are tonnes. I’d say the majority of things that eat in to my time on a daily basis are things that my sibling could do just as easily 150 miles away as me 50 miles away.

Finally, acknowledge what your sibling does. What was your response when he said he was ‘on his knees’?

Very helpful

I said I was sorry to hear it. We have been visiting monthly and DB has done two more visits than us. We had to cancel one visit as DF was in hospital. I also stayed for a week a few months ago at very short notice (which actually was a nightmare as we have no childcare so had to draft friends in very quickly but I obviously didn’t say) so have probably had more face time to be honest. That said, DB has been able to go and see DF in hospital twice when I haven’t as have been able to do a round trip in a day

Apparently going to see DM at Christmas brought him to his knees. We had wanted to go but been told not to so had gone for a visit at the beginning of December. I said I was very sorry to hear that however we would have loved to have seen DM at Christmas as I had said. Suggested that we all discussed Christmas going forward so all on the same page and told no point as can’t make rigid plans. I don’t want to make rigid plans - just have some discussions and look at options. Now been told that I should have actually just insisted in coming at Christmas and made that decision on 23 December but there would have been no where for us to stay as DB was staying with DM.

DB also seems not very keen for our DC to visit due to covid risk so we have always seen parents outside - which was unbearably freezing in December so we hardly saw DF who had to go inside but DB happy for them to go into the house with their children despite his DW doing a fair bit of socialising etc. I feel I am wrong footed all the time trying to do the right thing

All medical things have been discussed jointly with DM

Have discussed with DH and feel we will need to rise above it all. Been told by DB this we really the only time for us to see DM as our DC are going back to school so now we have missed the slot due to covid risk 🥴

We are going to ignore the covid stuff now going forward as it doesn’t make any rational sense as we are no higher risk of covid than anyone else but will still take all precautions and make arrangements to see DM as much as we can. I think that’s the only thing we can do.

Thanks for the reply though - it was very helpful

Surely the risk of Covid infection is one for your mum to make?

It's a very complex situation and the PPs post is very insightful. How far away is he compared to you?

Re Christmas your bother is kind of right there's no point talking about something 12 months away now.

It could seem like he is deliberately trying to freeze you out but only you know if he is, or if he's just trying to get on with it.

Re covid risk, that's your mum and dad's call, not your brothers.

I am 4 hours away and he is slightly over 1 hour

Agree - no point in discussing anything now but when arrangements are presented to us as a done deal, we then find it impossible to undo our work and other family commitments etc.So if we could take part in those conversations at the time, it would be really helpful. If not, we will always be on the back foot and less manoeuvrable unfortunately.

I don’t know re freezing out. DB is a self confessed control freak who does will say openly that he doesn’t believe anyone can do anything as well as him.

I don’t know - it’s tricky. My family has always been one where there has been talking internally about people not “doing the right thing” but not actually telling the person who is meant to know this. Now - as an adult, I do feel that quite often the person was actually completely unaware of this expectation. Hence why I veer much more towards wanting to discuss things openly.

This has been really helpful to discuss here

I think in your circumstances definitely just present the times you are coming as a done deal. If your DB has any sense and is stressed he will take advantage of not being the closest responsible person at that time. I agree with the comments on covid risk too. We’ve gone beyond that in these circumstances. The only other thing I’d say, is that shorter, more frequent, trips can work better than longer less frequent ones.

Try not to take comments about ‘doing the right thing’ to heart. Old age and illness makes people egocentric - my blood used to boil as my parents bitched about a neighbour who had nieces who ‘never bothered with him’ whilst knowing not one thing about these nieces personal lives and commitments. I bit my lip as on one level I know it’s driven by fear, on another, I felt like you, a weight of expectation on me.

In terms of practical tips, I wish there was a sticky thread here to pin them on with the caveat that different regions may do things slightly differently. I’m not sure of all your circumstances, in particular how capable your DM is, however you could look at securing attendance allowance, getting some care in or cleaning/gardening support, with planning you can coordinate an online shop with a carer visit to put it away, you can apply for a blue badge if mobility is an issue, you can at many councils request help with bins to avoid putting them out and taking them in, you can request an assessment to make home safer and get some
Modifications made free of charge… I am sure there are more. You can register as a carer with your GP too to be prioritised for vaccinations and put in touch with support groups. You can also get your parent to fill in a form authorising you to speak with the GP. You can request that the GP mark their file as housebound too if trips out become an impossible challenge. Blood tests, blood pressure, vaccinations can be done in home if needed. It’s worth mentioning your circumstances at work too so your line manager is aware. You can register your parents as vulnerable with their electricity supplier too… it’s all minor things but hopefully helpful to know and may reduce the strain on all your family. I know how hard it is with work and children - you end up with a three ring circus you never volunteered to be ring master of. And none of this means you don’t love your parents; simply that we are none of us saints.

Why are you giving opinions on care decisions when your DB provides the care? It’s a put up or shut up situation. So unless there are serious, serious failings you either take on the care responsibilities yourselves or respect your DB enough to trust him to do it. Being out of it and still expecting a say is very, very unreasonable and you are lucky he hasn’t called you out on it.

As for Christmas - as he’s the carer and his family are the ones your parents see all the time then of course they would want to spend Christmas with them. They should always get first choice for big events like this because they are the carers.

Honestly I think your relationship might improve if you send your DB a big thank you gift or send him messages / call him to say how much you appreciate what he’s doing. Being a carer sucks. Being a carer for parents when you have an outspoken sibling who has made decisions to escape the same burden is even worse.

I'm another coming at it from your brothers point of view. My mum has elderly parents and 3 brothers (all wishing 20 minutes drive) and she and her sister are the ones providing the care. She gets extremely annoyed when any of her brothers make comments like 'you should do this' 'how about this' 'I don't agree with that' because really- they're not the ones doing it!!
As a pp said- put up or shut up.

Are you talking directly to your DM ? What does she have to say about it ?

DB doesn't provide any care. We are talking about visiting and decisions about hospital care. FAOD DM and DF don't require any personal care etc and they have a cleaner and gardener. The reason we have inputted on hopsital care is because we have been asked by DM and DF for our opinion. Just want to be entirely clear on that

We are not "out of it" DB has visited a few more times than us and done two hopsital visits. I probably have actually had more face time due to the week that I stayed during a crisis so I don't feel a present is warranted for DB just as I in no way expect a present for staying for a week at very short notice with no child care thus basically leaving my DH in a very difficult position. I haven't even brought it up nor would I

He is not a carer nor have I made decisions to "escape the same burden"

restzol - that is such an incredibly helpful thread. Thank you. You are right - we need to just present going as a done deal. We have danced around trying to read the situation and do the right thing and not intrude or cause DM and DF work or pass on COVID etc etc and we actually just need to do what we can do when we can do it. We are seriously compromised as we have no childcare near by and DH has a frontline clinical role with nearly impossible targets. No option to work from home and not going in or leaving early means adding further to the horrific patient waiting list if I just up sticks andewve during the week. It is what it is but for people who do have local help and work from home it can be hard to understand the massive administrative burden to make a trip at very very short notice. I also don't feel - judge me - that I can do an 8 hour round trip drive in one day. So it's an overnight at a minimum which limits it more to weekends.

We will speak to DM and get some dates in the diary. This type of ill health is new and really only been the case in the last 3 months so we need to try and get a new normal in place

I have spoken to DM today about it. We have agreed the next visit (very soon). If DF stays in hospital for a while, we will actually ask her if she would like to come to stay with us for a few days as no visiting is allowed - another nightmare! I’m not sure she would but I want her to know it’s an option. We just need to focus on our relationship with DF and DM really. What will be the will be with DB.

I think @Restzol raises some good points here. It's hard to get the same view of it all as the person who is physically closest. That said, it can also make them very dogmatic and dismissive of other people's input. I found this with people near my dad when I was further away - they were helpful and genuinely caring but also infuriating to coordinate with.

How much are you talking to your mum? I know it's not the same as being there, but phone calls can be a big comfort. I used to ring my dad daily on my hands free as I drove to work each morning and home again later - not long calls but he enjoyed it and it allowed me to check in and find out things he needed. (You maybe doing this already of course.) Would there be a way for you to make phone support your thing, and also see what you can organise to support them online? You said your mum's fit and well but I think it would be wise to introduce the idea of help from outside people and services - e.g. a cleaner or online shopping delivery - so that 'support' isn't something only you or your brother can provide. Lots of older people resist the idea of buying in help and would rather put it off and/or get family to do it all, but that then leaves you stuck in a very difficult position when their needs increase.

Well I would just deal with your DM then.

@Ozanj well, it is not entirely clear to me how unbalanced the care load is, nor that the OP has sought to escape the burden,
however, what I can agree with is that if my sibling had expressed appreciation of what I’ve done I would be bloody ecstatic. No need for a gift. No need for a medal. Just a validation of my lived experience rather than a denial of my reality. Acknowledging an uneven contribution would involve acknowledging the gravity of the situation and responsibility I have had to assume that they have not so I won’t hold my breath on that one. @Gobbolinothewitchscat stick in there and find the best way to support your DB

What exactly has taken your brother “to his knees”? Just checking as a relation of mind was talking about being stressed and burned out, l naively thought a world of care was being given.
I dig deeper and in reality, had viewed a few properties with a family member and been to Dunelm Mill with them .

I also vote see ask what your mum wants. Your brother does sound excessively controlling and uses emotive language to try to keep you in your place l think. It’s super convenient that his wife can socialise here, there and everywhere, but he prevents his mum from seeing your children as Christmas on the grounds of covid

This is so common.
What you find is that one sibling may do more for parents than another. Many reasons for this obviously. Then that sibling can feel put-upon and behave in a way that the other siblings perceive to be angry and possessive and martyred.
I think the important thing to remember is that you are all adults with your own separate lives, circumstances and personalities. And each of you has your own separate relationship with your parents. None of you has a right to tell the other siblings how to interact with their own parents. So if one sibling chooses to do everything for the parents 24/7that is THEIR choice and they don’t have a right to force that choice on others too. If another chooses to do nothing at all that is also THEIR choice. Even if it is the wrong thing to do, it is still between them and their parents and no-one else.
So stay calm. Keep in direct touch with your parents - don’t use an intermediary (your DB). Your parents may dither, unwilling to upset anyone by speaking out and saying what they really want. That’s fine. Offer them the opportunity to speak their mind and offer your DB a chance to say if something, eg a particular time or date does not suit him. Then if there is still no agreement, just go ahead with visits and support at times and dates that suit YOU. Your family will come to respect your ability to remain calm and enforce boundaries.

Just adding my experience here. I am one of 4 siblings but have provided the most hands on support to our parents as I no longer work full time and they do. 3 of us live the same sort of distance from them but none are local. What I have found hardest is the ‘bright ideas’ from my siblings - things like ‘it would be good if our parents got a cleaner’. This sort of thing was particularly irritating as it usually came after I’d just had a difficult conversation with my parents who were stubbornly refusing help. I felt that I was always being put in the position of bad cop, especially when my siblings then refused to have the conversation with my dad directly because ‘he wouldn’t like it and they didn’t want to upset him’. But at the same time I completely understand their want/need to be involved - even if it’s not obvious how. We have sorted this by having a sibling WhatsApp group where we all share ideas and report back on conversations/visits to our parents. This has worked well and was particularly good during my mother’s hospitalisation when visits were very limited. You might see if your brother is open to something like this. My siblings feel more involved and I feel better supported.

it isn't up to him when you visit. You need to make arrangements with your mum and stop asking him what he thinks.