Care and property.

[Plodurbfbdh]

Don't know if this is the right place for this post. As it concerns a property query.
For a bit of background, me and Dp have been together for 13 years, not married, no kids. Own a property together 60/40. I own the bigger share. Also both work as self employed. The issue is this. His mother has had many MH problems over the years (hoarding and a breakdown) and is now 88 yrs old. She has recently been diagnosed with dementia and is now incontinent. The house she has always lived in wasn't suitable for her to be in as it was in such a state due to not being maintained over the years and the hoarding problem making it worse. She is now living with Dps sister, who is really struggling with her own issues as well as trying to look after her dm. I think that dps dm needs to be in a care home, and I think that dps dsis also has this view.
Dp has had the idea that we could buy out his dsis, and take ownership of his childhood home from dm, do it up (which would involve, literally ripping the plaster off the walls). They both have an Lpa over Dm, for care and financials I think. My question is, is this actually allowed? If we did decide that we wanted to move 200 miles to where his dm is, how would it work if, say in 2 or 3 years, dps dsis says" I can't cope with dm's condition anymore, she needs to go into a home". What would be the legal and financial implications of this? If the house was signed over to us from dps dm, would we need to sell to fund care? Anyone done this themselves? Thanks for reading. If you have any idea, of professionals I could discuss this with. Dp thinks it's a great idea. I worry that it's not so simple.

I should add, that moving would involve selling up here and dissolving our business.

If you buy it for a fair market price and she keeps the proceeds then it isn't an issue

If she 'signs it over' for free or for very cheap then it will be seen by social services as deprivation of assets and the money will be counted as though she still owned it in any financial assessments ie she would likely be liable to pay the full costs of her care.

They would also probably be done for misuse of the LPA if they took the property for free or for a big discount as that is not acting in her best interests

If it is for a fair market value then there is no issue but it would need to be above board and to be proven to be above board.

They can't under any circumstances take your house back BTW but they can charge MIL for her care as though she still owned it.

If she isn't living in the property or she moves into care then it will need to be sold to pay for care anyway so it sort of immaterial who buys it. I guess DP knows that and wants to keep the property on the family but you don't sound keen!

Suggest you get a written valuation of the house in its current state to start with. See if you can afford that price plus doing it up. Then see a solicitor for advice

Your family would need to pay the price for the whole house. Not half. It belongs to your MIL. MIL could pay for her board at SIL's and for carers to help.

If she eventually needs to go into a care home, whatever money is left will help to pay for it.

Can I just make sure I’ve understood?

At the moment the property belongs to MIL.

The expectation is that it will be inherited by DSIS and DH. When you say “buy out DSIS” what you mean is give DSIS half the value of the house so that when MIL dies it will be inherited entirely by DH.

Is this what you mean?

If the house is currently owned by MIL, to avoid an accusation of deprivation of assets, you would have to give MIL full market value. This might be for the whole house, or for a share of the house, MIL retaining the rest.

Does mum have capacity to say she wants to sell ?

But DSis doesn't own it, does she? So you can't buy her out of something that isn't hers?

You'd have to buy it (all, not half) from MIL and then when she passes away you and DSis would presumably inherit any money that was left after care had been paid for.

I also don't understand how this plan is at all benefitting DSis or MIL? Under his plan MIL gets no money but loses a house. DSis gets some money (early inheritance, effectively?) but her DM will still be living with her from the sounds of it? And that's the issue that needs resolving as she isn't coping, yes?

If you don't give MIL any money for her home, and then she needs care, they'll want to know where the value of the house has gone and she will be expected to fund herself as though she has that asset still.

If she doesn't have capacity, and DH uses the POA to effectively give her house to himself, he could be in quite hot water.

“If the house was signed over to us from DPs mum would we need to sell to fund care”

Yes, as PP have said above.

DM already has care needs, it is entirely foreseeable that she will have care needs in the future, and she has assets (her home + any savings/income) that could be used to pay for them. So if she gives away her assets and ends up needing state funded care because she has no assets it will be seen as deprivation of assets and they will come after you for the cash.

DP and DSIS need to recognise her home as assets to help her in her old age, not as their inheritance. I suddenly came to that realisation with my mum, and I’m not proud of how I felt about it at the time.

www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs40_deprivation_of_assets_in_social_care_fcs.pdf

I agree
Stop seeing it as inheritance and see it as her house so if she can’t/doesn’t want to live there anymore should be used to benefit HER and her alone.
As she already needs care giving it away would be deprivation of assets anyway

You have to look at this situation as a whole. Both you and your partner are self employed and own your current home 60/40. Your partner wants you to sell your current home and put this money into doing up his mother home 200 miles away. You both have close your business as well. So what income will you live on? Will you be able to get work in your mil area?

Along with this his mother house needs major work. His mother has dementia so I don't think she is mentally sound enough to decide to sell her house. He would have to give her the full value of the house as well otherwise it could be looked at getting rid of her assets rather than pay for care costs.
Your partner is thinking we can get a house cheap, do it up and make money on it but the reality is that this house is not his. This house could end up costing a fortune to do up and your giving up a lot - your current home and own business to possibly let him do this.

Meanwhile your DPS is minding her mother with dementia and is now incontinent. You know his sister is finding it hard going doing this. Minding an elderly people person with dementia is hard and some people with this can sleep very little so your always standby in case they get out of bed, fall or open the front door and wander off. One of my friends did this type of minding for a while but they needed to put their mother into a nursing home because she needed so much care. They were both physically and mentally exhausted by the time they did this.

You need to tell your partner that your not willing to sell your home and give up your business to enable him to get his mothers house. I also tell him that his sister is not going to be able to mind his mother on her own for much longer. Tell him he drive to his sister house for a weekend and mind his mother to give his sister a brake. Maybe if he sees the reality of minding his mother he see she needs to be in a nursing home.

She can sell the house at market value to you both to pay for care.

She will then have the money in her bank from the sale which will go on care.

Your dp and his sister do not have any share at this point.

Your dp and his sister are only entitled to their share as you put it after she has died or it goes to whoever is named in her Will.